Tanks, what do you wish healers knew about you?

[Wadoka]

If you need 15 seconds to establish a viable enmity cushion, you're a terrible tank. At *worst*, you should need 7.5 seconds to get your first RoH/BB combo off, and, even then, no one is likely to pull off of you if you've started with a Lob/Tomahawk before going into your starting combo.

I'm a conservative Tank and I like a big cushion. Especially since I am still outgeared by most everyone else in the groups in which I'm being placed.

I prefer everyone to simply sit still until I've lobbed, flashed, keyed for FoF and CoS, and run through two RoH combos. All that requires 15 seconds minimum *if* I don't miss my timing by a few tenths of a second here and there - and if we're not also counting the time it took me to run in while lobbing and flashing.

People who can't wait 15 seconds at the start of a fight, when it's in their favor to do so, are making the tactical situation harder than it has to be.

[Kitru]

People who can't wait 15 seconds at the start of a fight, when it's in their favor to do so, are making the tactical situation harder than it has to be.

And you're basically asking everyone to stop playing for 15 seconds every 3-4 minutes because you're bad at your job.

I don't care how conservative you are. If you need 15 seconds of alone time at the start of a fight to feel confident about keeping aggro, you need to find a new role to play.

[Pooky_Pasha]

snip

I'm not sure how far you've gotten content wise, but when snap aggro becomes mandatory (you have at most 1 second to secure the drop before it goes for the healers or dps), this type of attitude will consistently wipe the party. Learning to Shield Lob > Fast Blade (or Shield Lob > Flash for AoE) on pulls to secure hate is pretty much mandatory.

The further you get content wise, the more aggressive dps get, the more aggressive you need to get.

[SummerRider]

I'll give you maybe 6-7 seconds to establish hate on a single target.

I say that as a BLM (DPS) player. I will wait usually for the name on the mob turns red and then a breath (a second) and then I'm casting Thunder III followed by Fire III and then into my Fire I spam. That might not be the best single target opener, but it seems to work for me.

Thunder III has 3.5 second cast, and Fire III also has 3.5 second cast. So before the big hit, you have 7 seconds, probably 8 since I pause just slightly on a pull. After that start I'm watching the hate meter to see how fast I gain. My goal is to always be higher then the healer but below the tank.

[Wadoka]

And you're basically asking everyone to stop playing for 15 seconds every 3-4 minutes because you're bad at your job.

I don't care how conservative you are. If you need 15 seconds of alone time at the start of a fight to feel confident about keeping aggro, you need to find a new role to play.

Have you ever tried to put a standalone timer on your actions rather than just adding together GCD and calling that, the takt time? You'll find, I believe, your actual run-up and light-off into your rotation take longer than you believe it does, and it will be much closer to my 15, than your 7.5.

As an aside, I read all your posts in the Tank forum and appreciate your contributions.

[Kitru]

Have you ever tried to put a standalone timer on your actions rather than just adding together GCD

GCD is 2.5 seconds, so, even if I'm just counting GCDs, I know how long I require. Even if it weren't counting GCDs, I know exactly how long it takes me to start up because I can just watch the time on CDs and buffs. My full on opening attack string takes 40 seconds, but I don't require anywhere *near* 15 seconds of alone time before I expect the DPS to unleash hell because I generate enough enmity to last that full 40 seconds in the first 7.5 seconds of the fight; the remaining 32.5 seconds are just there to make sure I don't have to care about generating enmity for the next 2+ minutes.

Even if you're undergeared compared to the DPS you're with, you shouldn't require more than 3 GCDs to get sufficient aggro for your DPS to start attacking. Enmity multipliers are so high that there's no excuse for needing more than that.

[Wadoka]

Kitru,

Respectfully, are you including the time it takes you to run across a Trials arena, to get within melee range of a Trial boss ? The time it takes you to get within melee range for your first Enmity combo, is part of the time I include in my wished-for cushion.

Given a Trial arena. You start away from the target at max range - if you were any further away you'd have to move closer again before you can target the boss.

Everyone starts running to the boss. Getting to melee range from the start circle takes 5 seconds or so.

Our ranged DPS can start shooting pretty much immediately if they want to. Start the clock there.

We run for 2.5 seconds to get within 15 yalms, and you key for Tomahawk. I key for Shield Lob.

We reach melee range and you might Flash if you've cross-classed. I will Flash once. Another 2.5 seconds for me because Flash is on the GCD.

I key FoF and CoS, because I can. If I time it right I don't suffer any downtime, because they're off the GCD.

I hit FB (2.5) - SB (2.5) - RoH.

My run-in and first rotation was: Charge in to Lob range (2.5); Lob (2.5); Flash (2.5); FoF/CoS/FB (2.5); SB (2.5) and complete my entry with RoH. That's 5 GCD equivalent. 12.5 seconds, plus the time between keying for RoH and RoH processing.


... 12.5 seconds if I key everything perfectly and didn't lose a few tenths due to Hyuran frailties of perception and hand-eye coordination. And Aethernet issues.


Then I would really, really like to be allowed to throw a second RoH combo on top of that.


So. Too conservative? The 2nd RoH is overkill?

Would you say, it's not necessary for me to use one Flash that early in my opener? Should I go straight to FB?


If I drop the Flash it's still 10 seconds from the moment I start moving, until I cap with the first RoH.

[Jarvix]

Not just healers but DPS's as well. Until I started to tank I never payed much attention to the whole aggro thing. Look at it an learn from it how much you can do and not pull it from the tank. If both of you and the tank are paying attention things will go lots smoother.

[Kazumac]

Oh yeah, that's right. I guess then either have no fairy until after the pull (swiftcast Summon), or let the tank run out of range of the fairy.

No this is bad advice... On normal pulls this won't be an issue as a flash will easily out threat an embrace. During the brayflox HM gathering phase the SCH should be running with you. If the fairy is on heel they will not heal the tank until everyone stops. I have never had an issue with a tank losing aggro to my fairy during that part.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Would you say, it's not necessary for me to use one Flash that early in my opener? Should I go straight to FB?

I would say your problem is that you are using Flash as a single-target opener to begin with. There is no (good) reason to use 2 Lobs on engage either. Lob (FoF) > RoH combo > spam RoH forever. PLD is too easy.