with this mindset the future looks dim

[Kiokin]

She runs content with and without our FC, you assumed she doesn't run without them just because I didn't say it, fail.

I never used the word "cheat", direct misquote, fail.

People demanding players have you-tube foreknowledge of fights pay for the game, and think they should be able to play the way they want to, and screw everyone else, were even.

Why are you-tube "must" individuals so adamant about defending THEIR play style, but screwing everyone else?, yea sorry, but no.

Because their playstyle doesn't hurt the party.

[Kuwagami]

Because their playstyle doesn't hurt the party.

it does hurt whoever doesn't have the same playstyle as they do because of all the bashing/rage though. I think we can consider it "hurts the party", can't we ?

[Kiokin]

it does hurt whoever doesn't have the same playstyle as they do because of all the bashing/rage though. I think we can consider it "hurts the party", can't we ?

One person's feelings getting hurt because they get yelled at for wasting 7 other people's time, or 7 people's time getting wasted because one person decided to hold them back. Which do you think is worse?

[Kuwagami]

One person's feelings getting hurt because they get yelled at for wasting 7 other people's time, or 7 people's time getting wasted because one person decided to hold them back. Which do you think is worse?

Are you seriously asking ? Little hint : one of the two is against the ToS and bannable. The other is just a difference of interpretation.

You know, like 1 person enjoying the game and queuing for a new fight to discover it (oh right, they "decided to hold the others back"... seriously, they just wanted to PLAY), and then 7 other people putting their lives on the line (OMG time wasted while playing) in a *RANDOM* duty. Because we were talking about DF. In PF it would have been different. In DF you have no right at all on others. If they haven't studied the fight before and/or are pros, you have no right to complain. If you don't like it, quit the instance.

I'm baffled that you really think protecting one person's fun is worth negatively affecting seven others. Isn't that the "toxic" attitude you people love to complain about? This whole "eff everyone else, I'm having my fun" thing?

It's negatively affecting other people (not necessary 7 even..) because they can't value their gaming time. If you enjoy playing, you don't mind wiping. And if you come to mind wiping, then you quit the group when you can't bear any more of it. The 30 mins timer should be far enough to chill out.

That said, I was merely saying that bashing/raging on someone is against the ToS, especially if it's harassment for "not watching a video before going in". Such a reason is plain stupid. You knew it could come the moment you registered for the DF.

Then again, if you can't stand new players not playing your way (spoiling with videos or w/ever), stop DF. It's just as simple as that.

[Kiokin]

Are you seriously asking ? Little hint : one of the two is against the ToS and bannable. The other is just a difference of interpretation.

You know, like 1 person enjoying the game and queuing for a new fight to discover it (oh right, they "decided to hold the others back"... seriously, they just wanted to PLAY), and then 7 other people putting their lives on the line (OMG time wasted while playing) in a *RANDOM* duty. Because we were talking about DF. In PF it would have been different. In DF you have no right at all on others. If they haven't studied the fight before and/or are pros, you have no right to complain. If you don't like it, quit the instance.

I'm baffled that you really think protecting one person's fun is worth negatively affecting seven others. Isn't that the "toxic" attitude you people love to complain about? This whole "eff everyone else, I'm having my fun" thing?

[Qfox]

the chaos started from within .. people failing continually without learning or bother to check why they wiped the grp ..
and that biggest reason why people ask for exp because they dont want to deal with people like this ..
i know its not fair for people who is first timer. but for me .. new fight dont take me more than 5-10 wipes to master it ..
not everyone have ability to observe while doing the encounter itself for things going on around and asking ..

[Sapphic]

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.

Here's the thing. Coil and Ex primals are not in the roulette. Pretty much everything in roulette can be summed up in a short sentance or 2 for new players.

[Kinseykinz]

While you rise valid points and well constructed, this is wrong.
the sole purpose of the roulette is to help new players to get their way through the content. Not farming tomes quicker. Thus, you HAVE to expect to meet 7 people going blind in it. If you aren't expecting it, I suggest you stop the Trial roulette quick enough not to be disappointed.
.

Not all content is created equal...and not ALL content is 'to help newbies'

Low Level/Storyline. Sure thing.

But High Level....starting to hit a grey area, by this point, there is a general expectation that you know how to play your job, and have done a little research. Still nothing in a high-level dungeon is so problematic most PuG groups shouldn't get through it...so really most people, myself included don't care if you're new to Haukke Manor HM...or Adamor Keep. We hope you listen if there's something about the battles you need to know, but most are understanding.

Trials....this is more 'hey help people get their relics' ...and not really, 'teach them the mechanics too while you're at it.' Not only that, with the exception of Moogle King, all of these battles are 'additional' content/sidequest fights...meaning you don't even need to do them to continue on with the main story. Duty Finder at this point is just a tool to assist the player in finding a quick group to get stuff done without having to sit around and wait for friends to log in or /sh for a group for hours. But still, if you are using the DF to 'shorten' your process or to avoid having to pull together a group to do said content with, then doing a 5-10 minute quick study of the mechanics isn't really too much to ask of you. Again, by this point in the game, you're supposed to have a dedicated group you play with to do content such as this with.

Expert: Teaching a couple minor battle things here and there no biggie, but this also isn't a 'help people clear' spot anymore. There is zero reason why anyone needs to do this content on their path to unlocking additional story etc. It only exists as a challenge and tome farm.

Lastly, you're only accounting for Duty Roulette bonuses...which I did of course, use in my example...but the bigger picture is, if everything is a slug-fest, with little odds of winning, people will just stop using the Duty Finder. Examples of this already exist in game. People know that it is highly unlikely to Clear/Win T5 or Extreme primals in the Duty Finder...therefore, serious players who can beat it simply don't queue in the DF for that content...meaning the only people you're apt to bump into are people who still need to clear it/are practicing it or an established group that is practicing and just needed 1-2 more people to fill their roster....the 'yeah I farm this in my sleep guy' is a rare sighting in these Duty Finder Queues. And since so few experienced players queue in this content, you get in these DF queues exactly what you supposedly want....fresh people with no real experience/outside knowledge to do battle with....and yet, I am pretty positive that by the point you think 'okay, I got it up to twisters now...' You really won't want to queue in DF to try to beat T5 anymore, because you will get frustrated that every new team you need to reteach, or sit through as they learn. So you'll either make your own static, or PF it with some description that says 'know at least up to twisters, baddies will be kicked, stay until we complete our duty' ....and isn't that a little ironic. As you expect people to be patient with you learning, but sooner or later you too will be like 'screw it, I just want a simple win.'

....unless you just like beating your head against a wall for months...then maybe you'll keep grinding and losing.

So expecting the same 'no worries, we'll keep wiping with you 'mr random stranger I don't know' until you get it in random DF Titan HM party is probably a little above and beyond what should be considered normal.

I also have no issues helping new people get through content....I just have issues with the expectation that I'm supposed to either teach you the mechanics or carry you though...or even worse, the random few who not only expect the group to be cool with their coming in ill-prepared, but refuse to be offered any help/suggestions and cause wipe after wipe/people to abandon forcing others to leave.

Nor do I expect random people I meet in DF groups to be really super talented/geared/skilled. I just expect average joes that have a basic understanding of the battle/how to play their role. A wipe or two is fine. 4+ due to ignorance is not.

And yes, I do pick and choose my DR's of the day based on what I feel like dealing with.

[Kolaina]

all this time defending the self discovery side of the argument could have been better spent on youtube learning content. if you all truly want this sense of self discovery use party finder to find a like minded group. as it is right now, with rouletters and alts, your sense of self discovery is an illusion. how many times has someone familiar with this content has someone fixed one of your mistakes by saving a healer from a loose mob just as an example? or any number of things you may not have noticed and hence will take a long time for you to learn your mistake.

also, i can not count how many times i've run titan hm and seen relic'd players lying on the ground since as early as 2nd phase. yeah because we know how they got their wins. so for those who believe studying before hand is cheating, so is having people practically carry you through content. for those who want to learn on their own, how much are you learning when veterans of the content are holding your hand the whole way?

[Lamentations]

Because their playstyle doesn't hurt the party.

This is nothing more than your personal opinion and preference on the topic.

Wanting people who have forehand knowledge of the fight/mechanics is fine, demanding it outside of PF isn't.

You have made it quite clear by now that your definition of hurting anyones playstyle or having your time wasted is the only right one, even though your just wrong.

MY gf saw a PF comment the other day that stated know the fight/ or kick, die once/kick, lag or connection issues/kick, these people will suit you, search them out.

These people aren't getting their time wasted, they "are" a waste of time, and air, they have no reason to breath good air, much less play an MMO.

People like this are lazy, self centered, obnoxious, and antisocial, the increasingly sad representation of a lot of "community" these days.