Solutions to make dungeons slower and/or longer.

[Urielparadox]

I....

and the same logic of mob grouping could be applied to black mage and summoner, why do we have AOE moves that need 4+ mobs to be beneficial if mobs are only set in groups of 2 or 3,... in fact most mob groupings are 3 and 2, or 3 and 3, the perfect amount to not be stressful and for aoe to be efficient. by your logic blm and smn should have no aoe spells or shouldn't be allowed in dungeons because dungeons aren't set up for them.

edit- you also all are ignoring the fact that it is all based on your party set up. if you don't have a blm/smn pulling more then 5 mobs is pointless and stresfull. I'm coming off as rude, because I'm stating that people need to think about the whole party, and party efficiency, and not just them self. I'm not annoyed because i'm stuck in a single target rotation on blm i'm annoyed because you are wasting my time, your time, and the other 2 members of our partys time. If your party make up is drg/mnk and brd/drg/mnk, you shouldn't be pulling 5 mobs, this annoys me just as much. When you level all jobs up you learn so much more about every other job, I have friends who after lvling blm changed the way they tank with a blm, because of everything i'm saying here. Maximize your party, learn what every job does and is best at.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

My "logic" so to speak, had nothing to do with BLM/SMN, so let's throw that out right away. I'm simply saying that no matter what argument can be made, medium to large pulls are NOT a standard for tanking. Perhaps they're good - excuse me - efficient for BLMs or SMNs, but not everyone plays those classes. And not every BLM/SMN might agree, but I can't speak for them. I'm not a caster. I get it: if things can be done faster, then to NOT do it is not efficient. Is that it? That's a solid point, but it's not always right.

I can make a pre-made and "tank" Lost City as a Bard (obviously well geared and with a good team/healer), and in doing so not have to wait as long as DPS normally does. But is that necessarily efficient? Sure, wildly different scenario, but stripping my previous point down to the core, is the time I save to get in by making a pre-made of 3 DPS and 1 healer efficient?

[RyuDragnier]

ITT: BLM complaining because he doesn't know a proper single-target rotation, and wants every tank to grab multiple groups of mobs because he only knows a multiple-enemy one.

I'm not joking, this is what I'm getting from you Urielparadox.

[Urielparadox]

snip

This is why I'm coming off as rude, I apologize for that, but i'm referring to specifically maximizing the party, in this case with a blm/smn. So to ignore them is to ignore the argument. Try lvling one up one day, not even to be a master at it just to get a better understanding of the job and how it works.

ITT: BLM complaining because he doesn't know a proper single-target rotation, and wants every tank to grab multiple groups of mobs because he only knows a multiple-enemy one.

I'm not joking, this is what I'm getting from you Urielparadox.

God I hate reply to trolls who don't read. nope, in fact I specifically stated several times it's about party efficiency. I know my single target rotation since you know I have to use it all day long in 90% of this content, the only time I really get to be a blm is turn 4 and dungeons, hince why i'm I'm training up on smn, however like I as l stated, once the buffs to blm single target come in I won't have as much an issue with this. In regards to me personally if I want an SR i'll put up a pf for it or get friends. All of which I have said already. If our single target rotation wasn't pathetic for damage compared to everyone else then we wouldn't be getting a buff. in the end I don;t really care if i'm doing single target rotation or multitarget, what matters is making use of the party make up.

[givemeraptors]

and the same logic of mob grouping could be applied to black mage and summoner, why do we have AOE moves that need 4+ mobs to be beneficial if mobs are only set in groups of 2 or 3,... in fact most mob groupings are 3 and 2, or 3 and 3, the perfect amount to not be stressful and for aoe to be efficient. by your logic blm and smn should have no aoe spells or shouldn't be allowed in dungeons because dungeons aren't set up for them.

This is bordering on nonsense. I main SMN and we're just as efficient with single target DPS as we are with multi-target DPS. Besides, this is Brayflox, the time difference is...5 minutes max?

And harassing a tank that wasn't deliberately trolling? God forbid someone want to have a relaxed run in an easy dungeon. Arguing that your party's efficiency is ruined because "l33t AoE DPS!!!" is asinine. If the party was THAT good you should cleave through smaller mobs at a satisfying pace that equals or comes close to larger pulls.

[Urielparadox]

....

My argument is that the tank should look at the party, the gear, and the jobs, and pulling the amount of mobs that they can handle and best fit the party set up.

My whole argument is for party efficiency, not doing the bare minimum and calling it good, nor am I sitting here saying speed run rarara, I have never harassed a tank over it. I mean if I wanted to harasses a tank I would just go grab the next group of mobs and make him work or let me die. I stated though smn dps suffers a little it doesn't suffer a lot, however blm does suffer a lot(again if this wasn't the case we wouldn't be getting a fix). Especially pulling mobs one at a time when it unneeded. Since smn still has a good single target dps unlike blm, it's still less efficient to pull 1 group of mobs instead of 2 with summoner, and again my whole annoyance is with being lazy and preforming subpar, simply for no reason. but since i'm just repeating myself at this point and you people are inferring thing's and clearly not reading I'll just drop it here.

[Staris]

Don't bother I am pretty sure all these people are Macy's cashiers and are happy with functioning as slow as possible as long as they don't get fired or vote kicked.

[rhemi1]

Should rename this topic, "How to get people to stop running dungeons". If there wasn't a dungeon in the next set that could be sped through you can bet they'd all go right back to Brayflox. People already drop out of Lost City and Halatali, just like they dropped out of Copperbell and Pharos in favor of Haukke.

[Nomad-phx]

im fairly confident the role of tanks is to simply be a meat shield, thats why we get the meat shield title lol from what ive seen its the most under appreciated role, thus the "tankless job" achievement and shear lack of numbers indicated by near instant que times. the cool thing about this game is you can be all the jobs if you want so instead of hatin on tanks cause your not getting your way you should make a tank of your own so you can do dungeons as fast as you want lol

[givemeraptors]

My argument is that the tank should look at the party, the gear, and the jobs, and pull the amount of mobs that they want so long as it doesn't overwhelm the party set up.

Fixed.

I hear loud and clear what you're saying, but unless the tank is putting the party's survivability at risk they can pull as little or as much as they want. Those gear checks a tank does at the beginning should dictate pulls ONLY when it comes to the potential to overpull. Tanking isn't like driving, you can't tank "too slow" unless it's Wanderer's Palace and there's a "time bomb" mechanic in effect.