Solutions to make dungeons slower and/or longer.

[Urielparadox]

I am so tired of this crap. I leave at least 2 brayflox a day because of people who can't/wont play their class(i'm a dps it's easier to replace me then a tank).
I had an animus war who refused to pull more then 1 group at a time. I asked him to pull at least 2 groups, he didn't say anything and then went out of his way to pull as few mob when he could wasting mine and the partys time. I'm not on my drg, mnk, tank, healer, bard, i'm on my blm and that means I need at least 4 mobs to be doing decent dmg compared to the other dps with us. I don't want to be in a dngn an extra 5-20min because you didn't want to do your job and pull the mobs properly to fit the build of the party. When I confront the them, these tanks generally reply with "if you want a speed run go do pf," so I reply with something like "I'm not asking for a speed run, did I ask you to pull 10-15 mobs? no I asked you to make use of your party and play your job right, and pull at least 5, I assume a warrior I come across in a df knows how to pull and handle 5 mobs, if you can't then you should start doing it so you can learn how."

[Lemon8or]

I need at least 4 mobs to be doing decent dmg compared to the other dps with us.

This is bullcrap. Your damage is not that far behind that you need at least 4 mobs to be doing comparable damage to the other dps.

[Urielparadox]

First and foremost I'm taking everyones gear/lvl/experaince into consideration I never am mean to lower lvl tanks and in fact have helped guide them on how to pull the dungeons. When to use cd's ect.

I also have no qualms with long/hard dungeons or mechanics. I just hate someone who is lazy, and doesn't care that their extreme lazynesd affects other peoples lives. I have plenty of crafting, leves, and dailys to do so I don't care about the penalty. and I leave the party as dps because I know I can be quickly replaced and if I start something with the tank i'm screwing everyone else over. I actually prefer haltial to brafylox because I like it more, I do haltial on a melee though.

This is bullcrap. Your damage is not that far behind that you need at least 4 mobs to be doing comparable damage to the other dps.

Blm and summoner are multiple mob jobs, need at least 3 mobs to brake even and 4-5 to surpass their single target dps. The job is made for multitarget, if a multitarget job can't use multi target spells, why have it in the party? it's simple logic BLM single target dps is pathercly weak to others. reaching about 350 on a dummies while drg, and mnk can easily brake 400. It adds up and instead of 15-20 min run I get a 30-35min, 2 runs like that I lost a whole dungeon I shouldn't have lost simply because of lazyness, not gear/ilvl/experience, but lazyness..

There is nothing that says this is either part of his job, nor the official standard for tanking. Yes, things may move faster that way, but it's purely optional. You weren't necessarily wrong to want bigger pulls, but neither was he for not doing so in the first place. And let's face it, dungeons take time, speed runs or not. If you truly wish to maximize your time efficiency (please note: that does NOT directly imply a speed run), then going in with a pre-made party would actually be your best bet. But remember that not everyone is on YOUR time.

Actually the Tanks job is to allow the party to preform to the best of it's abilities. Does it dramatically reduce tank dps, or make it harder on the tank to get 1 more group? nope, the healer? unless both the tank and healer are very low ilvl then nope not as long as the tank is dodging. does it slow down the party for the group to grab 2 sets of mobs? nope. does grabbing one set of mobs slow down the party? yep. Does grabbing one set of mob dramatically increase healer or tank dps? nope for healer, if the tank swaps to dps gear and doesn't use defiance/uses shield oath.then actually yes, though they aren't going to compensate for the damage lost by blm not being able to aoe. Even my smn will be slowed by stacks burning if you don't pull 2 groups. Soare you willfully slowing down the progress of the party for no reason? yes. Is grabbing enough of mobs to allow the party to preform at's its strongist, without stressing anyone it a speed run? no it is not. if I want a speed run i'll use pf/friends since I can do 11min run that way. Simple logic and reasoning means that you are not doing your job. 1+1= 2 if you need math

[Lemon8or]

or make it harder on the tank to get 1 more group?

Technically, yes it does. More group = more mobs = more damage = more dodging/popping cooldowns.

the healer?

Also same logic, see above. I don't even bother with the rest of you asking yourself a question and answer them.

[Zaero]

Technically, yes it does. More group = more mobs = more damage = more dodging/popping cooldowns.

Also same logic, see above. I don't even bother with the rest of you asking yourself a question and answer them.

Allow me to also pile on this, since Lemon makes good points.

The tank's job is to keep the party from getting hit by mobs. It's not to "enhance your DPS", nor has it been that in any game I've played (FWIW). The fact that you argue they're not "playing their class" has already solidified it in my mind. If mobs aren't hitting you as DPS, then they're "playing their class" You're not asking for a direct SR, but you want a fast run. IF the tank doesn't want to do that, and you DF/DR'ed up, then either deal with it, or go find yourself a tank that conforms to your style, become bestest best friends, and run everything together.

As for teaching a tank to pull big, it takes time. I'll just (for argument's sake) assume you didn't give any pointers and rabidly yelled at them like a middle/high school football coach. Your posts here aren't doin' ya any favors to change my mind on that.

[Urielparadox]

...

As I stated in the quote you quoted, which means you didn't read. I have no problem with long dungeons/ new players and teaching them how to do stuff, what to stun, ect.. I spend most of my time in game helping fc members and link shell members so I rarely do anything myself except for coil anymore. what I do have a problem with is needlessly slow run for no reason. I also state that I leave if the tank doesn't pull better, where as any one who comes out attacking is going to fight with the tank till they leave. I ask once nicely, if nothing happens I ask again and explain why. and if still nothing happens I leave. I eat the 30min so no one else in the party gets screwed, by a tank leaving. I'm pretty sure that says a lot compared to how many people just sit there and argue needlessly in the middle of a dungeon. I say this always first, no different "please pull at least 2 packs of mobs, a blm/smn's damage is at it's best when it's at 4+ mobs."


A tanks job is to keep mobs off of dps. The same logic can be applied to dps, my job is to damage. see I blizzard 3 the whole fight I never ran out of mp. thats damage? it's just as a faulty. Tanks are doing the same aoe hate generation whether they have 3 mobs or 5 so it's more work on dodging(in this case it's 1 more raptor you have to dodge. but it is not anything diff with weak mobs. my job as a blm is to atk multiple targets, though I have the ability to fight single targets so that my job isn't useless in 90% of endgame stuff(which it kinda is useless in the new coil), therefore I can't do my job CORRECTLY because the tank isn't doing their job correctly. Part of playing your job correctly is maximizing your partys efficiency, a blm using defensive cooldowns, physical dps using cooldowns to cure them self so healer doesn't, summoners manual controlling their pet on obey, none of these things are required to play these jobs, but if you aren't using you resource available to you. Especially when you have an animus axe as a war. You are not playing the job correctly. I'm not being a whiney b telling you to do OMG do a SR, no i'm simply asking for you to pull 2 groups of mob so that i'm not bored to death and being a wasted dps slot.

I have plenty of jobs to play on everything but my healers and bard are i89+ with levi/zenith weapons. If I want ot single target oI'll go on that job. also my argument works both ways, a tank who pulls an ass load more of mobs, when you have all single target classes with you. It's not paying attention to your party.

[Zaero]

Snip.

I read plenty. You want tanks to run -your- way, or you ditch. So....it's all about meeting your standard for a run. Try lowbie roulette sometime. Also, asking for 2 more groups sounds a lot different than your OP context.

Also, I main BLM (I notice you've 50'ed everything, so I understand you know the ins and outs of many roles). Yes, you have AOE capability, but you'll note there's a single target rotation, and a multiple target. I seem to be playing my role as a ilvl94 BLM with extreme primal wep just fine if things die, so ...yup I respectfully disagree.

Anyway, I feel my point has been confirmed, since the tone of your posts seem to have shifted significantly based on context. Thanks for the laughs.

[Alcyon1]

The tank's job is to keep the party from getting hit by mobs. It's not to "enhance your DPS", nor has it been that in any game I've played (FWIW).

Epic fail.
Next dungeon, I'll just around the group with my War. Eh, I'm keeping the party from getting hit by mobs !

As for teaching a tank to pull big, it takes time. I'll just (for argument's sake) assume you didn't give any pointers and rabidly yelled at them like a middle/high school football coach. Your posts here aren't doin' ya any favors to change my mind on that.

With an Animus, I guess he should have a "decent" idea how to pull at least 5/6 mobs.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I don't want to be in a dngn an extra 5-20min because you didn't want to do your job. . . play your job right, and pull at least 5

There is nothing that says this is either part of his job, nor the official standard for tanking. Yes, things may move faster that way, but it's purely optional. You weren't necessarily wrong to want bigger pulls, but neither was he for not doing so in the first place. And let's face it, dungeons take time, speed runs or not. If you truly wish to maximize your time efficiency (please note: that does NOT directly imply a speed run), then going in with a pre-made party would actually be your best bet. But remember that not everyone is on YOUR time.

[Cessna]

Another solution is what hatalli Hard mode does. Basically from boss 1 till the end of the dungeon your forced to fight the monsters as they come out and you cannot grab any more until they are dead, the doors will not open until all mobs are dead.