SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

[Judge_Xero]

Little OT fun fact. Killing mobs solely with your pet will not give you credit for the kill.
Work with your pet. Don't just drag it around and you will feel like a Summoner.

[Akiza]

[QUOTE=Razard;2126632]It is delusional, the Primals themselves are, within the cannon of FFXIV, uncontrollable god-beasts. Even the Beastmen tribes have no real control over them outside of the seeming obligation they have to the race that can summon them. And, as shown with Leviathan, that obligation is shaky at best.

What makes you think that these Primals would lower themselves to being controlled by any Mortal race.


The problem is the Egis in Final Fantasy XIV were a poor design choice for a summon considering people want carbuncle and topaz back. Summoner's summoned weaker versions of the Avatars which represented a portion of the Real Avatars strength while still retaining the image and abilities of the Prime Avatar which is the reason why people don't get the lore reason for Summoner's having Egis in Final Fantasy XIV.

[Kitru]

Summoner's summoned weaker versions of the Avatars which represented a portion of the Real Avatars strength while still retaining the image and abilities of the Prime Avatar which is the reason why people don't get the lore reason for Summoner's having Egis in Final Fantasy XIV.

I keep forgetting that FFXI and FFXIV share the same exact lore for everything. Oh wait. They don't. The lore reason for Egis in FFXIV makes perfect sense. You just don't like it.

[BloodPact]

Little OT fun fact. Killing mobs solely with your pet will not give you credit for the kill.
Work with your pet. Don't just drag it around and you will feel like a Summoner.

Nice find! Bit of a bummer but I it's OK as it would have given us certain advantages over other classes, like AFK farming for animus book targets (still viable for regular items, though).

[YanderePrincess]

The problem is the Egis in Final Fantasy XIV were a poor design choice for a summon considering people want carbuncle and topaz back. Summoner's summoned weaker versions of the Avatars which represented a portion of the Real Avatars strength while still retaining the image and abilities of the Prime Avatar which is the reason why people don't get the lore reason for Summoner's having Egis in Final Fantasy XIV.

I'm not sure about people specifically wanting their carbuncles back, but I do agree on one thing. Visually, the Egis were a poor choice. There is no reason the Egis couldn't have more closely resembled their Primal counterparts. That was the first thing to ever put me off of Summoner.

[YanderePrincess]

I keep forgetting that FFXI and FFXIV share the same exact lore for everything. Oh wait. They don't. The lore reason for Egis in FFXIV makes perfect sense. You just don't like it.

Actually, what in the lore explains why they look so shitty? I saw absolutely nothing in the lore that explained the -appearance- of the Egis.

The form of the Egi, like the form of Carbuncle, according to the lore is what your character shaped the power into. Why can arcanists shape aether so easily into a very defined form like Carbuncle, but summoners, who are far more skilled and far higher in mastery of their ability to create creatures out of aether, can only make very [visually] poor simulacrums of the primals?

[Kitru]

Actually, what in the lore explains why they look so shitty? I saw absolutely nothing in the lore that explained the -appearance- of the Egis.

So your complaint is entirely aesthetic? That's just changing the model which is not really a big deal. It's like bitching about one of your attacks not looking awesome enough.

Personally, I think they look fine, but that's because I realize that the carbies are actually simpler models than the -egis are; they only look super simple when you pan out incredibly far and loose the fine details. Zoom in close to a carby and compare it to a zoomed in egi; the egi has a lot more fine detail to it (same with the fairy).

[Jamez82]

Whole design choice both aesthetic and skill wise was poor for the summoner.
I know that they wanted to do something different with them which is admirable, but they just (pretty much) copy/pasted WoW's warlock.
Most people's view of the summoner was summoning big bad beasts (rather long or short duration) to devestate the enemy, not summoning minifrit to add a little extra to the summoners much higher damage output.

Don't get me wrong though, I love my summoner I just dont feel like I'm playing final fantasy when I'm on that particular class.

[YanderePrincess]

So your complaint is entirely aesthetic? That's just changing the model which is not really a big deal. It's like bitching about one of your attacks not looking awesome enough.

Personally, I think they look fine, but that's because I realize that the carbies are actually simpler models than the -egis are; they only look super simple when you pan out incredibly far and loose the fine details. Zoom in close to a carby and compare it to a zoomed in egi; the egi has a lot more fine detail to it (same with the fairy).

It's not a big deal, but it is a legitimate complaint. More detail =/= better appearance. And it's not the same as bitching about an attack "not looking awesome enough." It's more akin to bitching about gear being recolors rather than remodels. And there probably would be fewer complaints about Summoner if the models more closely resembled the primals they Egis are based on. The worst offender is Garuda. There's some sense to the appearances of Ifrit-Egi and Titan-Egi as it turns them into flying versions. The Garuda-Egi model, however, doesn't have that issue because Garuda already flies, and of the three Egis, she's the one who resembles her Primal counterpart the least.

The appearance of the Egis, though, does the most to make the Summoner class not feel like a Final Fantasy Summoner. FFXIV's Summoner is a far better job than FFXI's Summoner was, and far more thought out, yet FFXI's Summoner felt more like a real FF Summoner because what you summoned actually looked like the beings they were derived from, actually looked like the things an FF Summoner summons. It may sound "silly," but a big part of FF through the years is the visuals, and I'm not talking about fancy cinematics and the like. I'm talking about things like Chocobos, the summons, a lot of other iconic looks (such as what you find in AF armors, Warrior of Light gear, etc), etc. Hell, that's even something I've seen as a complaint regarding other FF games, when they lack any of the iconic summons altogether (I remember seeing this especially as a complaint about FFXII).

If there are people wanting their carbuncles back as Summoner, it's because one of the things that made Arcanist so fun in the beginning was running around with Carbuncle, running around with an iconic summon from Final Fantasy at your side.

And, there might be more detail in the model itself for the Egis than for the Carbies, there's not in the animations, especially on Garuda. She just kinda sits there and things fly out from her, and that's not a matter of graphics settings. And what that boils down to is the most commonly used Egi looks the least like her Primal counterpart and has the least animation to her attacks.

And to again address your statement of "that's just changing the model which is not really a big deal." It really isn't a big deal. That's part of the point. Yeah, "fixing" it would take some resources away from other visual changes/additions, but it wouldn't impact any of the teams working on mechanics-related issues, and it's a change that wouldn't require any rebalancing of the class, but would significantly improve Summoner in regards to "feeling like an FF Summoner."

[abesut]

So your complaint is entirely aesthetic? That's just changing the model which is not really a big deal. It's like bitching about one of your attacks not looking awesome enough.

Personally, I think they look fine, but that's because I realize that the carbies are actually simpler models than the -egis are; they only look super simple when you pan out incredibly far and loose the fine details. Zoom in close to a carby and compare it to a zoomed in egi; the egi has a lot more fine detail to it (same with the fairy).

Ya know, when you start with "it's like bitching etc" then ppl will stop taking you seriously. And aesthetic is a big deal. Same reason some prefer different kind of clothes, cars, etc. Or are you the kind of person who just smacks on a pair of crocs, and a washed out T-shirt? :P
I Agree, the whole egi visual and control is just plain bad, whole Job seems like a Warlock slapped the FF tag on it. :P plays the same more or less :P