Bard's DPS in endgame.

[Alcyon1]

I agree with Ooshima. We run T8 with pld/mnk/mnk/drg/brd/smn/whm/sch to great effect.

If they keeping their mana, sure. If Requiem is (almost) always up, the DPS is a bit higher.

[givemeraptors]

a quality melee or magic DPS would always do better than a decent BRD.

Um, isn't this obvious? Shouldn't the comparison be between two equally skilled players on each job?

[Maero]

^ agreed
"Quality" Melee and "Quality" Bard should be the comparison, no?
Bards can in fact do more damage but always comes down on how well a players knows their class.
Bard alone as a class is a support class so i really cannot understand why people are so high up saying that their Monk or dragoon does more damage,
well no kidding. I have had someone show me his damage numbers with a parser ( he was higher geared and a dragoon) and i had Mage's ballad up,
like um no kidding dps should be lower on Bard in that case, if not then melee need to learn their class better, lol
This whole thing of Bard is lowest dps simply does not always hold true

[Zencurse]

Bards generally possess high amounts of burst damage (2nd only to the Black Mage) as well as bringing likely the most utility of any DPS job, lastly they also have the most mobility of any dps job. To compensate for this they suffer with relatively lower sustained DPS potential. This isn't much of a problem as the amount of utility you bring and the damage increase you give to the casters (and indirectly the melee by granting them TP if needed) more than makes up for your lower base dps.

On T8 our Bard is generally last on the list (tank withstanding) so don't worry about it that much. Bard is much more about focusing on how you can best assist the raid group than pulling the massive dps. Not to say it isn't important to dps properly however, Bard damage is still good, just not the best.

[ErnestoGiovanni]

Um, isn't this obvious? Shouldn't the comparison be between two equally skilled players on each job?

The point was that Bards weren't innately OP it was that when they calculated in the down time for dps running and thus unable to act, bard was still firing away and the dps was steadily increasing the more dodging others had to do. Bard was released with more dps abilities but was planned with more utility like stone skins and cures. Check out the opening sequence, the bard jumps down and cures Derplander. It was a last minute change to make bard a dps since the had no ranged, non caster, DPS. I believe bard wont change much, it has to balance dps and utility with Yoshi-p never wanting anyone to feel that any one job is necessary for an encounter. Ultimate balance is really hard to do.

[Shurrikhan]

The point was that Bards weren't innately OP it was that when they calculated in the down time for dps running and thus unable to act, bard was still firing away and the dps was steadily increasing the more dodging others had to do. Ultimate balance is really hard to do.

Would be nice if they could at least buff themselves (Flaming Arrow, Venomous Bite, Windbite, and Bloodletter) with Foe Requiem though. An ilvl 90 BRD vs. an ilvl 90 MNK is a difference of (at best) 300 and 360 dps. Allowing them to occasionally buff themselves up to 315 or so (physical not affected) wouldn't kill balance; even if the Bard will more often keep optimal dps than any melee, it's rare that they would ever sink to the Bard's level completely.

Edit: Tried comparing numbers on Spyres that I was the only one to have DoTs on when doing Levi EX. Foe seemed to increase Wind/Venom from around 170ish dmg ticks to 195ish.

[Menriq]

Double BRD is pretty wasted in T8. Single BRD with 2 melee DD anyday.

We run with two BRD's, SMN, BLM, DRG. Instead of popping Dex pots, we pop X-Ether, and can keep Foe Req up for most of the fight. The SMN and BLM last night on T8 were both almost over 400 DPS, with me being close to 360, and the other BRD (an alt) was around 300. Ultimately, there are several comps that work, and as long as the ultimate goal is reached (boss is dead), it shouldn't matter too much. With that said, with skill and gear being equal, I would never expect a BRD to be at the top of the DPS unless there is a lot of movement.

[VallisRaine]

The first major rebalance after 2.1 nerfed Bard's Bloodletter and Misery (I think?), along with our cross class abilities (bfb and internal release having less potency). This was the same patch with the WAR buffs, Copperbell/Haukke Manor HM, and Crystal Tower.

Bloodletter and misery weren't changed at all the Aoe buff from Rain of death was though instead of what was it -10% enemy def now its -10% enemy evasion which is kinda worthless but yea bfb and release got weakened as cross class.

Also yea your dps will be lower then Mele idk why smn is out dpsing you unless your full timing Foe like you said then that would explain it. songs cause -10% dps for you right off the bat.

[subteraneanbird]

Agreed. Bards got nerfed (back in early December was it not?) due to people complaining. They had a point though. Bards for example could top dps (easily) and refresh mp, and silence (turn 2) and boost caster dps etc.. Why not bring 2 bards or even 3 to Coil then.

I do think the error was made before launch where SE (the new dev team) wanted to have the original, classical job names back. So Conjurer now would evolve into a WHM, thaumaturge into a BLM and gladiator into a PLD etc. These all made sense to us. Then you would automatically say "ah archer will be a Ranger. Wait what, Bard!?"

Then we got a ranged dps with support abilities which in itself sounds overpowered and it was..

Bard is one of Yoshi's favorite classical jobs and frankly has shown up real often. Probably equal to Ranger if not more. So that's why it showed up first.

[Geobryn]

Also yea your dps will be lower then Mele idk why smn is out dpsing you unless your full timing Foe like you said then that would explain it. songs cause -10% dps for you right off the bat.

foe does NOT decrease dmg
MP and TP songs decrease it by 20%