Nerfs are making the game less fun for "many" hardcore AND casual players

[Moqi]

I like Echo because the mechanics are the same, but the run is easier on the nerves if you choose to use it. I don't like things to be too difficult or too easy, and Echo + Gear can give everyone the balance they want. The only thing they could do to improve is let us set how much Echo we want when we raise the cap - for example, letting us play Turn 1 with 5, 10 or 15% echo instead of using it or disabling it altogether like it is now.

[Ooshima]

Offer normal, hard, extreme modes, but same drops.

nope. how can extreme mode drop the same gear as normal?

[SummonerSenah]

I think speed runs are boring. I kind of wish they would do ilvl caps on the post 50 stuff so we would have to deal with mechanics instead of just AoEing everything in every dungeon. So in a way I agree, since technically you could call it a nerf that people are running dungeons that only require i55 in i100 gear.

[Pantz]

Content nerfed too much? Is that why every T5 and Primal Ex I join on the DF can be cleared so easily?

/sarcasm


Anyway, this isn't the only game where old content is nerfed. Old content will always be nerfed sooner or later to make it easier for new players or players who couldn't clear them before to clear them. This is because all game developers want players to be able to experience new content. It's the same in any game. How it is implemented is different though. Other games tend to remove and change mechanics to make the content easier. In this game, we get a % buff to stats, which can even be switched off if the player desires so.

Just get over it. If you want to blame for SE nerfing content within 3 months, blame them for releasing a higer tier within 3 months. They should have released a higher tier content after 6 months -1 year like most other games. Screw SE for making content fast.

And regarding older 50 dungeons being easier after gearing.

Well, no shit sherlock. That is what gear progression is about. You get more gear so content gets easier. People want to progress when they play a game, not take the same effort they took in their first kill forever.

[Gormogon]

Old content will always be nerfed sooner or later to make it easier for new players or players who couldn't clear them before to clear them. This is because all game developers want players to be able to experience new content.

There's a thing called balance and progression. Even WoW had it before popularity got the best of them.

[Nicobo]

I think maybe OP is actually too causal and rarely pug with random...^^;
Everything will be extremely easy if your PT members are hardcore.

[Pinworms]

Content lockouts has made the game less fun for me. Just lock loot. Nerfs just let others that aren't so great enjoy the game too. The new content is where most people will gather.

[Rufalus]

Content has got to be nerfed to stop an ever widening divide between the front runners and those lagging behind. You don't need to overgear and use echo if you don't want to. To even see the echo in most cases, you need to show that you need it by failing to win. Many of us have still not beaten the last turn of the original binding coil, while the elite players are farming the last turn of second coil, so the gap is still getting wider. I would argue that a lack of nerfs is what would take the fun away for many, as we would hit a roadblock long before we have seen all the content in the game and have nothing left to do because we can never get any further even though content keeps getting added that we aren't good enough to be eligible for.

[blowfin]

You use the word "still" before wipe as it is surprising. Then you say that all that matters to you is being able to clear the content. If majority of players are like you - then I give up. Not that there's anything wrong with it - but jeeze - what happened to working for reward? I'm optimistic that most players still want challenge in their game and care more about a game than seeing everything cleared.

I don't understand what you want mate. You're complaining that content you don't actually play is too easy? Get back to us when you've cleared turns 6-9 and then we can talk about challenge.

Also, it's pretty clear that you haven't done many primal fights recently. Echo buff is only applied after you die, and it's starts at 5%. Most groups don't even see the echo in anything but Titan EX, where it doesn't help if you suck at dodging.

You point is only valid in regard to Coil turns 1-5, and this being nerfed is fine. It needs to be farmable for people to have an alternate i90 path apart from Myth, which a lot of people are spending on Animus. Basically this content has gone from being in the realm of statics and experienced groups to being in the realm of the more casual population. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

The whole concept of "challenge" is an interesting thing too. Pretty much all of the fights in this game are trivial once you've memorised the script.

There isn't enough content to fall behind at this point.

Yet you're complaining that you can't get to it before it gets nerfed? Something doesn't add up there.

[Ooshima]

I don't really see where's the damn problem. SE is just trying to cater to both sides of the camp, those casuals and those who wants some challenge.

That's why from 2.2 to 2.3 your options are limited. This will be the challenge period where your only gearing options are Soldier gears and hoping for Coil drop. 3 months for those who wants a challenge to clear the whole of Second Coil with limited gearing options.

2.3 to 2.4 will come with the so-called indirect nerf by people in this thread via further gearing options. You will have CT2 that will drop something that is better than i90, you will have Ramuh that will probably drop i100/i110 accessory depending on difficulty. You will have the Novus weapon upgrade which is possibly i110, for those who still can't even beat T7 and T8 for the Gerolt's Masterworks after so long. There's even considerations to raise the tome cap in 2.3, like how Myth's cap were raised.

All these alternate options for the casuals and lesser skilled players will be provided for, but definitely at a later stage so that those who wants a challenge, gets their challenge.

It's fair and square. I really don't get what the so called "casuals" are complaining about. Doesn't have time to raid, doesn't want to bother about statics, doesn't have the skills to rush for progression, but wants the best gear at the same pace as those who could, and those who wants a challenge? I think it's a little greedy. As much as the so called elitists "hate" seeing "casuals" having the same level of gear as them, the "casuals" just don't get to have their cake and eat it too. The current cycle of vertical and horizontal gear progression is just fine.

BTW I'm neither hardcore nor casual. I spend too much time in the game fiddling with vanity and socializing and doing other stuffs (like having Animus for main class and Atmas for alternate class out of vanity reasons) to be called a casual, but I also don't belong to the hardcore camp because my raid only does 2hrs raid per raid day and we don't happen to raid everyday. If not I'd be on T9 farm by now, but the fact is that I'm still working on T9 (only 6-8 on farm). And yes I think things right now is fine. 2.3 is just around the corner and the "casuals" will get their indirect soft nerfs via more gearing options.