Best Gear in Coil needs to end

[Ooshima]

CT had 0 tolerance mechanics yet it was way more lenient than titan's landslide and half of twintania's kit.

Erm... CT had 0 tolerance mechanics? King Behemoth'd be prolly the toughest fight there but the reason people wiped is because you have clueless monkeys running around, not knowing what to do and new tanks who can't tank the Iron Giant properly, despite having more than ample time to react to it. Things like landslide gives you shorter response time and Titan EX requires more situational awareness than CT.

And that's why CT gives i80, not i90.

Anyways, nope. I'm not signing up for your so called "SE stop using 0 tolerance mechanics" so that more people do coil and get the highest tier gears.

Maybe SE could do something like 2.1, introducing i110 accessories (only accessories) drops from EX primals (Ramuh maybe?) but of course, should pose similar difficulty as Coil 2 turns. I welcome a variety of choice but the difficult of the fight must match the ilvl of the gear offered.

Left-hand-side body pieces which offers VIT and defensive stat upgrades should probably still be gated behind Coil. I'd agree that the current situation is a little annoying with everything gated that's why I welcome a difficult Ramuh fight in 2.3 that would drop i110 accessories for a variety.

BUT! At least right now I can tell who can handle 0 tolerance mechanics and have the discipline and who do not. Simply because currently, Turn 7 is a huge discipline check. If I see you have T7 drops it means you passed T7 and you have the discipline. If you had a T8 drop it means you have both the discipline, and the required understanding of your class to pass the required DPS check on Turn 8.

If you do not possess these qualities, you can be contented with Soldier gears and upcoming CT2 choices. Although having better gears does indeed make things easier to roll due to higher damage and higher HP whatever, but that's because you and your raid already knows what to do, had the skill and discipline to do it. Just look around and you'll see players decked in i90 myth gears with a mix of i100 soldiery in T5 who can't even dodge divebombs and twister properly and wiping despite 15% echo buff. Does gear help these people? Nope, not really. If you can't handle low tolerance mechanics, i1000 gear doesn't help because you will still get one-shot by that mechanic.

[RoninDarkchild]

I dont get this thread.l... So people are saying the BEST end game gear should not come from the hardest content? And that end game gear that is EQUAL to top tier gear should come from content that is NOT as hard as the hardest end game content? Is that the jist of this thread?

[Xatsh]

I dont get this thread.l... So people are saying the BEST end game gear should not come from the hardest content? And that end game gear that is EQUAL to top tier gear should come from content that is NOT as hard as the hardest end game content? Is that the jist of this thread?

We saying 1 content should not hold all the BIS gear. That way there is more then 1 thing to do once you reach true endgame.

AKA people are asking SE to remove some of the linear progression and have more horizontal. Where everything does not lead up to coil 6-9.

Make Coil have BIS gear. Make Ramah Extreme have some BIS gear. Make X new Really hard content have some BIS gear. Make more item upgrades where they are = to BIS gear from Coil. That is what people are asking for. Just give people a reason to do something else besides run coil non-stop. Yea leave turn 9 dropping the BIS weapon. But have equivalents to other turns in other content, not all of it but some of it.

It really is not a hard concept. There should not be 1 Hardest Content in the game where all the best stuff comes from.

[blowfin]

Is that the jist of this thread?

Not really. But you're not the first to make that assumption. If you go and read through the first couple of pages of the thread you'll see what the OP was asking for.

Make Coil have BIS gear. Make Ramah Extreme have some BIS gear. Make X new Really hard content have some BIS gear. Make more item upgrades where they are = to BIS gear from Coil. That is what people are asking for. Just give people a reason to do something else besides run coil non-stop. Yea leave turn 9 dropping the BIS weapon. But have equivalents to other turns in other content, not all of it but some of it.

Exactly this, and to be fair it probably is going to head that way in 2.3 (and 2.28). 2.2 was always going to be "coil focused" so they put as many carrots in there as they could. Expect that to change somewhat in 2.3, I'd say there's going to be a level of gear equalisation which will make some people quite unhappy. But for people being bent over by RNG and lockouts in Coil2, hopefully it'll provide some welcome relief.

[Gormogon]

Simply because currently, Turn 7 is a huge discipline check. If I see you have T7 drops it means you passed T7 and you have the discipline. If you had a T8 drop it means you have both the discipline, and the required understanding of your class to pass the required DPS check on Turn 8.

You know there's a big loophole there. Coil doesn't drop gear for everyone. So you're saying that 2 out of 8 people have the discipline? Guess we better go tell all those top 100 guilds that they have undisciplined players in their group because these bosses don't drop 8 chests and have a weekly lock out.

As for CT all of those bosses have 0 tolerance mechanics the difference between Coil and CT is that you literally have to want the wipe for it to happen.

Bone Dragon - AoE every skeleton on top of the boss.
Thanatos - Allow for every pot to die.
King Behemoth - horribly positioned meteors + letting them break on purpose.
Acheron - Ancient Flare mechanic.

I dont get this thread

At this point I'm starting to wonder what has more difficulty this thread or turn 9.

[PrimeEvilPanda]

I dont get this thread.l... So people are saying the BEST end game gear should not come from the hardest content? And that end game gear that is EQUAL to top tier gear should come from content that is NOT as hard as the hardest end game content? Is that the jist of this thread?

I took the OP to want variety of hard instances/dungeons that drop BiS gear - he's not understanding why we only have the one cheese cake from just the one shop down the corner when he is open to exploring other shops for a variety of cheese cakes.

[Awrini]

I like how people have to interpret what the op was trying to say. Because the topic title states something completely different.

[Ooshima]

You know there's a big loophole there. Coil doesn't drop gear for everyone. So you're saying that 2 out of 8 people have the discipline? Guess we better go tell all those top 100 guilds that they have undisciplined players in their group because these bosses don't drop 8 chests and have a weekly lock out.

Erm, I dare to say every top 100 FC players would already have at least a piece of coil loot by now, sorry. Come on, top 100 FCs, T6-8 are already on farm for weeks already. And I've also known teams that will assign oil and sands to their players if they are faced with extremely bad RNG luck. Gear distribution is widely practiced in progression teams.

Out of curiosity what's your coil progression?

As for CT all of those bosses have 0 tolerance mechanics the difference between Coil and CT is that you literally have to want the wipe for it to happen.

Bone Dragon - AoE every skeleton on top of the boss.
Thanatos - Allow for every pot to die.
King Behemoth - horribly positioned meteors + letting them break on purpose.
Acheron - Ancient Flare mechanic.

You have to differentiate between a mechanic that can wipe a team and a mechanic that can wipe a team but at the same time, have a very short reaction time to it. You call the latter a low or zero tolerance mechanic, not the former. Not every wipe-able mechanic is zero tolerance.

Bone Dragon is not a low/zero tolerance mechanic. Do you realize you have donkey amount of time to kill all the skeletons?

Thanatos is the same. How to even let the pot die with you have so much time to top it up, and you could stoneskin + regen it beforehand.

KB? Again, donkey seconds allowance before the meteor dropped. Even if they are badly placed, it is still manageable if the alliance handing Iron Giant is not an idiot. I already told you the reason you would wipe is the tank handing Iron Giant sucks and allowed it to run around like mad man.

Archeon? Ancient Flare? The player must be falling asleep if he didn't made it in time.


Ancient Flare is nothing compared to things like Weigh of the Land and Landslide. Sometimes, casters have to sprint to get out of it. Ancient Flare? Nope, you don't need to do so. Want something more difficult? T5 divebomb, or even T9's divebomb. Any split second lag or indecisiveness from you as a player equates to death or even a wipe. Yes, you call this a low/zero tolerance mechanic. Not Ancient Flare, lol.

[Gormogon]

snip

1.) That's not what you said.
2.) I wasn't looking forward to T6 due to all the elitism and negativity and when I tried it the first time and got nothing but rage quitters within the first 4 attempts despite reaching the last phase I decided not to bother. I'd rather wait for CT2 > SCoB progression and hope the community is more tolerable or put up with SCoB when it goes to duty finder.
3.) Like I said those are zero tolerance mechanics just because they are lenient, as in giving you enough time to react, doesn't mean they wont cause a wipe. They still will but are in no way as stressful to deal with as Landslide.

[Geobryn]

KB? Again, donkey seconds allowance before the meteor dropped. Even if they are badly placed, it is still manageable if the alliance handing Iron Giant is not an idiot. I already told you the reason you would wipe is the tank handing Iron Giant sucks and allowed it to run around like mad man.

not entirely true, from time to time KB throws aoe dot on one of the commets to kill them, if you have all of them at one place you can have the best tank on the giant and still wipe :P

now on topic, from someone who did not beat t6 yet point of view
sure leave 110 behind coil i don't care if you really doesn't have the resources to create 2 "coils", the only thing i would question would be some "mechanics" (not the boss ones)

- the most you can do to make t6 easier for you is to get full ilvl100 from soldiery, but you wont meet accuracy cap
so, i would like to see second set of ilvl 100 gear, could be from some actually meaning full 4 man content, i mean why create second set of ilvl70 with new looks and place them in the low lvl dungeon with darklight ? it should have been that second ilvl100 in some ilvl80-90 4 man imo

- lockouts
i dont like the coil one, but i liked the CT one if there have to be one that is .... why is the CT one so bad ?
also, why are the lockouts like wow dailies ? we already had daily mechanic in game one which is superior to them imo, the leves = buffered daily lockout
yes, if you would have "CT like buffered lock out" you could get ilvl110 faster, but still it would take 11 weeks to get to ilvl110 (if i count t6-9 as one dungeon and grabing sands of time would lock you out too, 5 left side + 5 right side + 1 weapon) and then another 11 weeks to get both full sets, are 11 weeks really that fast ? or more like if i want to get both sets are 22 weeks fast ?

- why can't we craft ilvl 90 accessory ?