Considering hanging up my shield due to high level haters.....

[Azure_dragon-]

This comes up so often, but speaking from experience I really want to drive the point home that you can't ALWAYS do this. You can SOMETIME's do it if you're lucky and enough people are on / willing. I do encourage people to keep trying / waiting for a pre-formed first run, rather than just be dragged through in DF, because it's really worth the wait, but be aware this becomes particularly hard from early end game until EX primals and coil (which there are plenty of learning groups in PF for).

Which content are you refering to exactly?

[YeaniNah]

Don't worry i'm on your side but difference is i learn fast. But i don't play tank but BRD and they sometime have stuff to do like coil 1-2 but i don't look video sometime bad quality, don't know what to look or what skill he use so i'm more lost then all

anyway people are complaining the game is easy. Of course they check video ...those first who went there knowing nothing of it had a hard time doing it.
and I don't like spoiler. I like to find what look like myself. but my FC do a lot of learning party for starter and i see a lot of learning party in PF that don't require seeing the video
and i did a lot of DF where i said im new and didn't see video and i didn't get kick only told me what to do in boss

You only end up in some unfriendly partys

[Sadana]

Yeah, in my experience too it's tough to find a group that is in the "middle" of the 'casual'/'hardcore' divide (those that want endgame but don't want to rush and stress about it). Actually nearly my entire FC is like this... But it's really hard to coordinate time zones and stuff to form any regular group. It's frustrating too that the PF often doesn't get used for things like this, which surprises me. I hope for data center-wide PFs at some point to hopefully alleviate this.

[Velo_Vandore]

Which content are you refering to exactly?

Specifically, I find it hard to get slow and easy / learning / first time groups together for:

• Castrum Meridium
• Praetorium
• Wanderer's Palace
• Ampador Keep
• Any HM dungeon
• Pharos Sirius
• Lost City of Ampador

Basically all the content that's grinded out over and over for myth.

HM Primals were less of an issue. I guess since they are shorter and have no cutscenes. I got tolerant groups for these with LS and FC mates without too much difficulty.

Yeah, in my experience too it's tough to find a group that is in the "middle" of the 'casual'/'hardcore' divide (those that want endgame but don't want to rush and stress about it). Actually nearly my entire FC is like this... But it's really hard to coordinate time zones and stuff to form any regular group. It's frustrating too that the PF often doesn't get used for things like this, which surprises me. I hope for data center-wide PFs at some point to hopefully alleviate this.

Exactly! We have 60 players all wanting this, but they are on different times and not able / willing to commit to organized runs, so it's a real waiting game. Either that or give up and play DF "their" way (which most end up doing unfortunately).

EDIT: oh, and my next challenge will be finding tolerant players for coil and ex primals, who also will be willing to remove the echo buff. Luckily though I think my FC are doing this already

[Celaine]

Having experienced a "as the tank, you really should have watched a video before this", I can sympathize entirely. (In my case it was storymode Garuda and all I asked was did they have personal tips. I fought her in 1.0 and had a damned good idea what to do already. Oh, and the gripers? First people dead to not going behind rocks.) I think it's beyond ridiculous for people to expect you to watch videos before experiencing something for the first time. Part of the fun of a new patch for me is getting into the new dungeons and figuring out things as we go. It's never hard.

If you're being honest with your DF party that it's your first time, they really have no room to bitch. You have just as much a right to explore new-to-you things as they did when it was new to them. If they can't be arsed to give you helpful hints along the way? That's on them if they don't like the speed/progress of the situation.

[Nadrojj]

The tank is responsible for running the group through the dungeon and knowing the mechanics. If you're not willing to do a little research before you waste people's time in a dungeon then maybe you should play a dps.

[Sadana]

Specifically, I find it hard to get slow and easy / learning / first time groups together for:

• Castrum Meridium
• Praetorium
• Wanderer's Palace
• Ampador Keep
• Any HM dungeon
• Pharos Sirius
• Lost City of Ampador

Basically all the content that's grinded out over and over for myth.



Exactly! We have 60 players all wanting this, but they are on different times and not able / willing to commit to organized runs, so it's a real waiting game. Either that or give up and play DF "their" way (which most end up doing unfortunately).

For 2.2, I had a 4 man ready to go into the new dungeons right away and that was really fun! Making 8 man parties is what we struggle with the most. Even though we have 80 in the FC, levels, schedules, and game play style vary widely. So many have gotten tired of trying to make an endgame group that they stopped trying and just use the DF now. ._. Losing confidence is a big deal too; some people just don't feel brave enough to try a particular fight after the bajillionth wipe and the frustrating struggle to get people together.

[Rbstr]

When I was leveling tank I googled the dungeon and quickly read the mechanics of the fights - It takes 30 seconds and makes you vastly more prepared to run the dungeon.

I've got no problem explaining fights to people, when I dungeon run it's usually roulette so who knows what you get. What annoys me is when people wipe and don't learn from it and do it again.
Primals are another story. HMs in trial roulette are easily carried by a few people now but I pretty much don't do the Exes unless an FC person needs a clear. To much room for frustration.

[Frysia]

Honestly, I feel the same to an extent (I do learn the fights and stuff before doing anything), and I think this is a reason there are so few tanks in the DF or that use the PF. I'm ilvl93, but I refuse to use the DF or do Roulette because I don't wanna have to put up with asshats. I only do stuff within my FC, even if it means I don't cap my tomestones every week. I'd rather have a good time playing than have to put up with people who cry and scream over a small mistake someone might make.

[Nadrojj]

Honestly, I feel the same to an extent (I do learn the fights and stuff before doing anything), and I think this is a reason there are so few tanks in the DF or that use the PF. I'm ilvl93, but I refuse to use the DF or do Roulette because I don't wanna have to put up with asshats. I only do stuff within my FC, even if it means I don't cap my tomestones every week. I'd rather have a good time playing than have to put up with people who cry and scream over a small mistake someone might make.

You're only hurting yourself. Even the really bads can be carried through every single dungeon if you have three other semi capable players. Last night I ran brayflox HM two single target dps, healer in level 49 accessories and told us it was their first time there. We still managed to clear it pulling 3 mobs per pull in less than 30 minutes.