Does SE know how to make good, fun games anymore?

[Winterclaw]

@OP this title is a lil misleading simply because SE has only made games XI(merged during XI being released, so Squaresoft made the beginning of XI) and higher. 6, 7, 10 all were made by squaresoft not square enix.

True, but when the companies merged, the best of both should have been included. The people that have made FF games in the past are still making FF games. The people who made DQ games in the past (8 was still pretty recent and I liked it a lot) are still working on them.

[wind]

True, but when the companies merged, the best of both should have been included. The people that have made FF games in the past are still making FF games. The people who made DQ games in the past (8 was still pretty recent and I liked it a lot) are still working on them.

True but when you merge two companies you have to find a common ground. Each company has its own culture if you will, 'how things work here'. Trying to find common ground that pleases the majority while developing games is probably a difficult task. and its hard to bring the 'best of both' if they both feel there way is the best.

Overall this thread isn't directed toward being productive just a random discussion. Only reason I wrote anything was in case people were not aware of the fact that the names the OP dropped weren't exactly created by SE.
So anything people are listing Pre-XI shouldn't really be taken into account.

[Ranka]

Well for me it was like this:
FF1. Classic old fun rpg
FF2. Very similar to 1, but little more storyline/characters
FF3-5. Started seeing nice improvement in storyline and characters.
FF6. Only one I have no played of the 1-14 series
FF7. Good, but I think a little over rated.
FF8. Loved the story, hated the combat system.
FF9. Favorite FF, awesome characters, great villian(and had VIVI, HE ROCKEDDDDDDD)
FF10. Really good storyline, liked the progression of story.
FF10-2. Charles angels in FF, did not like this one at all =.=
FF11. Played for almost 3 years, loved it, but played it over 5 years ago.
FF12. Good storyline, but to much desert, made it kind of dull for me.
FF13. Still playing it ATM on the PS3, like it thus far, better than some older ones, but not the best.
FF14. Still in the works really, will determine that when the official start charging us.

All it really comes down to is opinion, the thread itself is a empty personal statement on your own view even if others share it. But if I base it on my opinion to, I got to agree, it seems it has not been that great since 12, 13 and 14 I am still undecided on really, but both keep getting better to me.

[Ostia]

Melancholy is not Emo. Emo is a fake emotional state brought on to be used as an attention grabber. Mourning the death of a loved one is NOT emo. Especially if you were almost the one that killed them and watched as someone else did without being able to protect them.

He was emo in AC

[Swev]

FF6. Only one I have not played of the 1-14 series

You should try it. Was one of my favorites and still is. I still have the Super Nintendo version which says Final Fantasy 3.

[Sav]

FFX. is. amazing.

Beyond that, the other recent-ish ones I've really liked were Star Ocean 3 and Nier Replicant (the Japanese PS3 version). FF's have been pretty miss in the hit-or-miss spectrum lately :/

[Winterclaw]

Really... how is this thread helpful AT ALL in the sharing of ideas to help FFXIV grow and change in a positive way?...

Because one could argue that SE is just pushing out everything they can and slapping the brand name of FF on it and forcing people to enjoy it. However part of me thinks that they've lost touch with their base (hence the polls) and I think it's been that way for awhile. So if they want to get this game to a point where people will pay every month, they need to reestablish that connection. If they don't, their brand will start losing value and FF/SE will become something that most people with common sense will want to avoid.

Personally I think this goes back to before the merger that SE (then square) started losing touch. Take the FF:SW movie. They blew all of their cash on a movie that looked nice but didn't really appeal to FF fans or movie goers in general. It flopped. Or there's FF:U. Again it was something that had names and themes slapped on it so it would sound like an FF, but it lacked something. Plus SE had to cut it short as they lost all that money on the movie.

Somewhere around then the merger came. So in my observations, FF14's current problems are more a result of a decade or so of losing touch. FF11 was pretty much an EQ clone. I've heard people say that a number of people who were originally responsible for FF14 hadn't even played an MMO before yet they were given the reigns of one. Let's assume that's true for the sake of the argument. How do you honestly expect to create a successful MMO if you don't even know what an MMO is like, never played one, and don't know what kind of features the player base wants/needs?

So if my opinions are correct, it'll be difficult to impossible to fix FF14 unless the current producer has the right corporate culture supporting him. Failures like the FF14 release don't happen in a vacuum. If the fans feel like SE is just a money grabbing business who don't produce quality products anymore (and there's more to quality than cool graphics or a great guy doing music) there's nothing that can be done to turn FF14 around. I don't think you can fix the game unless you fix the company that made the game and this goes a little deeper than hiring a new producer (I've got no complaints about him though). If the company gives that producer too many roadblocks, nothing can be done to fix the game... he won't have the tools he needs to use for the game.



Gameplay
Story/Plot
Character Development (not leveling, the story/plot kind)
And for MMOs content/things to do/or a genuine sandbox if you're going that route

These things are what this fan at least feels is important for a JRPG and an MMO with the FF name on it to have. FF14 doesn't exactly score high on any of those. MMOs should be more than just something you log into for 3 hours to kill things/craft for little to no purpose. I can kill things and craft in many MMOs. What makes this one special enough for me to choose it over those games?

SE thought that a pretty face was enough.

And look where it got them.

[Eekiki]

Because one could argue that SE is just pushing out everything they can and slapping the brand name of FF on it and forcing people to enjoy it.

And they've NEVER done that before, right? *cough cough mystic quest*

You make a good point, though. They have lost touch with the folks who made them, the fans. Yoshi-P seems to understand that for this game to succeed, Square needs to dance with what brung 'em, and that means complex plot, fun gameplay, and memorable characters. Whether or not SE allows him to match his actions to his words, that remains to be seen.

[Ava]

There's an article floating around the internet somewhere about an old FF developer talking about a topic similar to this. The article focuses on HD gaming, modern demands, and how they effect the RPG genre. I thought this article was right on the money and it really made me change the way I view graphics in games.

People underestimate how time consuming art is. It's a known fact that designing the art is the most expensive and time consuming part of a project. As people demand more and more detailed graphics with higher polygon count and more realistic environments, where do you think this extra budget comes from? Developers have to pull from other areas in order to meet the visual demand of the players. It's no surprise that FFXIV has no content, and it's no surprise that it used a randomly generated map creator using the same blocks of terrain over and over. People demanded better graphics, FFXI fell behind partially because the game started feeling too old, Square needed to respond.

You can argue that their quality of game has declined over the years, but they do still make great games. And in my opinion, their games have been by far and away the most visually appealing games and they're always on the bleeding edge of technology. Sure, I might not put 100+ hours into their games like I once did, or remember all of the characters forever, but I certainly get my $60 worth (exception being XIV).

I don't think it's fair to slam Square for not making quality games. Their stories still beat out 90%+ of the competitors and it's not like we're getting 10 hr storylines like a lot of competing titles. I enjoyed FF13, the graphics were amazing and found the gameplay really fun. The story was a little lacking but I don't mind because it was still worth the box price.

If people want developers to make better games with rich stories and memorable characters, they need to stop demanding bleeding edge graphics. Seeing as this wont happen, we'll continue to see declining stories and more and more gimmicks/casual releases. I'm really interested to see how 3d consoles are going to pan out because of this, I don't see them being very successful for an RPG fan.

[Corrderio]

And they've NEVER done that before, right? *cough cough mystic quest*

You make a good point, though. They have lost touch with the folks who made them, the fans. Yoshi-P seems to understand that for this game to succeed, Square needs to dance with what brung 'em, and that means complex plot, fun gameplay, and memorable characters. Whether or not SE allows him to match his actions to his words, that remains to be seen.

You do know Mystic Quest was made in North America instead of Japan and the reason for it was to help make the RPG gendre popular in North America right?