bards and their ...

[Menriq]

I saw a comment about TP songs pretty much never being necessary. If you are maximizing DPS on BRD (t8) you are likely to run out of TP within about 4 minutes even with well timed invigorates. TP song is very necessary for BRD and DRG in such situations. MNK can usually go a bit longer. If you want to conserve in t8 when you're 300 or below you could avoid using a few heavy shots and just use Bloodletter if it procs before reapplying straight shot and your dots. But even then you'll still need to help out your DRG and eventually MNK. And I know my group's tank gets pretty low on TP in t8 as well. Last time we beat enrage by over a minute so we're doing something right. Provided your healers don't need ballad at the same time it's better for the party if you use a TP song as opposed to reducing your rotation. If ballad is required then removing two heavy shots from the rotation may be the best route to maximize DPS while conserving TP.

Another situation where TP song is useful is while you're spamming aoe (t4 bugs, t5 snakes) or during a transition after applying lots of dots (adds and spumes in Levi ex). Or even Brayflox speed runs in a BRD + DRG config. You could be more TP efficient and let the caster (assuming there is one) handle most of the aoe for t4 and t5. But if you're looking to boost your numbers just because you can, TP songs are very useful in these situations. The ability to spam your aoe for much longer is generally greater than the 20% reduction in damage. It'll also allow melee to spam their aoe without killing their TP for the rest of the fight. Very useful if you don't have a caster or the caster, for whatever reason, isn't using their aoe in some random PF group.

In Levi it can be done without reducing your DPS by 20% as you'll generally be able to use your TP song during a transition. When Levi is diving, if DPS is slow, or after 1st set of spumes, if DPS is good and skips phases.

I'm not going to tell anyone how to play their class. With that said, I've never had to pop TP songs unless the DRG dies, even on T8. I generally run FR a couple times that fight. I pop Invigorate as soon as I get below 600, and by time I get low again, it's off CD. I'm not sure what rotation our DRG is doing on T8, but I know we are doing enough DPS to skip phases in T8, and we get 4 rocks total in P1 of T9, so I don't think their rotation is an issue since all the DPS are relatively competitive.

[Viridiana]

In Levi it can be done without reducing your DPS by 20% as you'll generally be able to use your TP song during a transition. When Levi is diving, if DPS is slow, or after 1st set of spumes, if DPS is good and skips phases.

Most of the Levi groups I join I never even Invigorate. Only time I do is if we skip more than one transition in a row. You shouldn't be getting so low that you need Paeon.

[RinchanNau]

Most of the Levi groups I join I never even Invigorate. Only time I do is if we skip more than one transition in a row. You shouldn't be getting so low that you need Paeon.

And what are your numbers like, if you don't mind me asking? I get low from using dots over and over. If I stay single target then I wouldn't need to invigorate or possibly even paeon during a transition.

Applying dots over and over to 3 targets goes like this. ss, wb, vb, wb, vb, wb, vb, reset. That's a lot of TP. Do you need to play like this? No. But It's quite effective.

I'm not going to tell anyone how to play their class. With that said, I've never had to pop TP songs unless the DRG dies, even on T8. I generally run FR a couple times that fight. I pop Invigorate as soon as I get below 600, and by time I get low again, it's off CD. I'm not sure what rotation our DRG is doing on T8, but I know we are doing enough DPS to skip phases in T8, and we get 4 rocks total in P1 of T9, so I don't think their rotation is an issue since all the DPS are relatively competitive.

And what is your 'rotation' like for t8? And numbers? Very curious. Video would be great if you have it.

Feel free to tell me what I'm doing wrong that I get low on TP, and you never need to use TP song at all. Here is a video.

http://www.twitch.tv/rinchannau/c/4172259

I don't mind sharing my spamming. Learning is good. Thanks.

[Menriq]

I have a video up for our first kill, but that was before I started using X-Ether instead of X-Dex. I'll try and record again tomorrow, but I am 4th on DPS and usually average between 315-320 on T8. The top DPS average around 360-375 or so. I know last week, our raid DPS was like 1805 or something like that, and I believe it included a death or two. Let me watch and see if I see anything that stand outs. Please note, I am not saying I am God's gift to Bard's. I'll be the first to admit there are plenty of bard's better than I am.

[RinchanNau]

I will be switching to ether pots for this coming week too. And I definitely screwed up in this kill video when I ran low on TP. I should have kept applying dots but did not. So my strategy if I am low on TP will be different this coming week. I'll apply my dots, as I should, and skip a few heavy shots and just hit my BL procs if they happen during that dead time. Though with the ether pots I should be able to get TP up more easily and not have this happen.

Where I am coming from is that in a BRD 'rotation' maximizing DPS you will burn roughly 400 TP a minute or even a bit more. Invigorate is 400 TP every 2 minutes. The numbers don't add up for you being able to go 10 minutes attacking without TP song unless perhaps you are modifying your rotation and skipping a few heavy shots as I mentioned I may try this coming week, if needed. Are you?

Sounds like our group had similar damage output. We downed it 63 seconds before enrage this past week.

[Menriq]

And what are your numbers like, if you don't mind me asking? I get low from using dots over and over. If I stay single target then I wouldn't need to invigorate or possibly even paeon during a transition.

Applying dots over and over to 3 targets goes like this. ss, wb, vb, wb, vb, wb, vb, reset. That's a lot of TP. Do you need to play like this? No. But It's quite effective.


And what is your 'rotation' like for t8? And numbers? Very curious. Video would be great if you have it.

Feel free to tell me what I'm doing wrong that I get low on TP, and you never need to use TP song at all. Here is a video.

http://www.twitch.tv/rinchannau/c/4172259

I don't mind sharing my spamming. Learning is good. Thanks.

Couple things I noted.

• You never used repelling shot. That is free DPS since there is no TP cost
• When the dreadnaught spawned, you didn't apply either DOT. You also let the dot's fall off the boss
• Toward the end of the fight (Like from 7:20 on), you seemed to just stop DOTing all together.

Keeping the DOT's will help get more Bloodletter procs. This is off GCD, but will get your numbers up.

Also, and this is the part where I haven't done enough research, so I could be wrong, is that when I start the fight, I open with Straight Shot and Bloodletter, and then use all my CD's, and then apply DOT's. The reason for this is that the damage is calculated at the application, so with all CD's going, your damage will keep going even after the buffs drop. After that, I generally use my CD's when they come off.

[Viridiana]

And what are your numbers like, if you don't mind me asking? I get low from using dots over and over. If I stay single target then I wouldn't need to invigorate or possibly even paeon during a transition.

Applying dots over and over to 3 targets goes like this. ss, wb, vb, wb, vb, wb, vb, reset. That's a lot of TP. Do you need to play like this? No. But It's quite effective.

Been about a week since I've played, but as I recall it's usually around 220-240. As far as multi-dotting, I'm somewhat lax about it. I'll usually keep both dots on tail, put two dots on one add, and put one dot on the other (who dies too fast for th second dot to matter). For spumes, I usually find that (on the first set at least) it's more beneficial to focus fire than to multi-dot.

But, yeah, multi-dotting is really taxing. If they last long enough to be efficient, though, it's usually totally worth it.

[Menriq]

I will be switching to ether pots for this coming week too. And I definitely screwed up in this kill video when I ran low on TP. I should have kept applying dots but did not. So my strategy if I am low on TP will be different this coming week. I'll apply my dots, as I should, and skip a few heavy shots and just hit my BL procs if they happen during that dead time. Though with the ether pots I should be able to get TP up more easily and not have this happen.

Where I am coming from is that in a BRD 'rotation' maximizing DPS you will burn roughly 400 TP a minute or even a bit more. Invigorate is 400 TP every 2 minutes. The numbers don't add up for you being able to go 10 minutes attacking without TP song unless perhaps you are modifying your rotation and skipping a few heavy shots as I mentioned I may try this coming week, if needed. Are you?

Sounds like our group had similar damage output. We downed it 63 seconds before enrage this past week.

I'll try and get a new video done this week. Our first kill was really hectic, and I was focusing more on mechanic's than I was my rotation. Even then, I wasn't having TP issues, and I clipped a few times pretty badly. Here is the kill video from a couple of weeks ago.

[RinchanNau]

Been about a week since I've played, but as I recall it's usually around 220-240. As far as multi-dotting, I'm somewhat lax about it. I'll usually keep both dots on tail, put two dots on one add, and put one dot on the other (who dies too fast for th second dot to matter). For spumes, I usually find that (on the first set at least) it's more beneficial to focus fire than to multi-dot.

But, yeah, multi-dotting is really taxing. If they last long enough to be efficient, though, it's usually totally worth it.

Well, as inefficient as I may be with TP, I often get around 280-310 in Levi ex. Maybe if zero phases are pushed then 270 at the lowest. Having a DRG doesn't hurt if there happens to be one in the PF group. I do a bit of streaming so I can make a 'highlight' sometime, but I follow the rotation I previously mentioned for 3 targets. Nothing special, IMO.

[Viridiana]

Well, as inefficient as I may be with TP, I often get around 280-310 in Levi ex. Maybe if zero phases are pushed then 270 at the lowest. Having a DRG doesn't hurt if there happens to be one in the PF group. I do a bit of streaming so I can make a 'highlight' sometime, but I follow the rotation I previously mentioned for 3 targets. Nothing special, IMO.

Yeah, I'm lucky to get a DRG, honestly. And it looks like you significantly outgear me. >_>

Also curious, do you wind up singing at all? It's not much, but that's 6-9 seconds where I'm not attacking.

And not taking in to account that I'm really going to need to run another LX to make sure my numbers earlier were right to start with. >_>