IM JUST SAD.....

[Valmar]

that chat spam

The RMT Spam is Real >.<

[Illya]

I love how he has a separate chat window just so he can see tells but it's ruined by all that RMT spam.

[Nanaho]

indeed. so much misinformation in this post.

I saw...nothing wrong with his post outside that WARs arent as good in the newest content. o.O in what way is he wrong, and i like how you edited his quote to that, makes you look like a total ass.

Anyways, i see nothing wrong

[Acaeos]

PLD has taken a huge hit on tanking. Through experimentation I have discovered that a when a PLD and WAR are competing for hate the WAR wins every time even against a single mob and when the PLD is better geared. SE please fix PLD!! WAR Should never steal hate against a single mob with equal gear much less with worse gear.

[Coth_X]

PLD has taken a huge hit on tanking. Through experimentation I have discovered that a when a PLD and WAR are competing for hate the WAR wins every time even against a single mob and when the PLD is better geared. SE please fix PLD!! WAR Should never steal hate against a single mob with equal gear much less with worse gear.

The tanks shouldn't be competing over a mob. Pld is fine. War is fine.

I want a new tank class to play ; -; that's fun like War and not boring 1,2,3 like pld.

[TheTank]

Are you main tanking Levi head on your war and not parrying cause you can't parry any attacks from the head since it's all magical.

And if you're comparing it to you off tanking the tail on a pld that's probably where your problem is at since you can parry all attacks from the tail.

[Snorgrind]

SE please fix PLD!! WAR Should never steal hate against a single mob with equal gear much less with worse gear.

why do you think WAR have 3 combos where 2 of them have no enmity generation ?

[Jitenshazuki]

PLD has taken a huge hit on tanking. Through experimentation I have discovered that a when a PLD and WAR are competing for hate the WAR wins every time even against a single mob and when the PLD is better geared. SE please fix PLD!! WAR Should never steal hate against a single mob with equal gear much less with worse gear.

Don't compete for hate. Ever.

[Kitru]

WAR Should never steal hate against a single mob with equal gear much less with worse gear.

I'm not sure if you're saying that WAR should be worse than PLD or that an OT simply shouldn't be able to pull off of an MT. If it's the first, you're wrong because PLD and WAR should be *balanced* wherein their enmity generation is basically neck and neck (which it is); if it's the second, a properly played WAR isn't going to steal enmity off of a PLD because SE>SP is an entirely low enmity rotation that does only marginally less damage than the highest WAR DPS rotation of SE>BB.

As to the validity of your claim (WAR pulling off of a PLD), assuming both WAR and PLD are played optimally, a WAR and a PLD simply using their optimal enmity rotations and using their CDs, a PLD is always going to generate more than a WAR because FoF is insanely good and RoH spam ridiculous for enmity generation purposes: FoF is the strongest DPS CD in the entire game (10% +dam over time and no penalty whatsoever; DRG BfB has slightly better contributions over time if used on CD, but 25% increase in damage taken is a significant penalty, even for a DPS; FoF on its own is actually worth as much over time as Unchained, Berserk, and Internal Release combined) and being able to constantly spam your high enmity combo means a crapton. If a WAR uses their CDs and debuffs/buffs properly, however, they can generate a fair deal more than a PLD:

RoH spam:
((150 + 200 * 3 + 260 * 5) / 3 + 83.33 + 25 + 25) * .8 * 2 * 1.1 = 1437.33 epot/GCD;
w/o CDs = 1306.66 epot/GCD

WAR BB>BB>SE w/ optimal CD use:
Unchained + Berserk = ((150 + (200 * 3 / .75) + ((280 * 5 + 150 + 190 + 270 + 150 + 200 * 3 + 280 * 5 + 300) / .75 * 1.4) / 10 + 83.33) * .75 * 2 * 1.2 / .9 = 3731.73 epot/GCD for 10 GCDs every 48
Pacification: 83.33 * .75 * 2 * 1.2 / .9 = 166.66 epot/GCD for 2 GCDs every 48
BB>BB>SE: (((((150 + 200 * 3 + 280 * 5) * 2) / .9) + (150 + 190 + 270)) / 9 + 83.33) * 1.2 * .75 * 2 = 1227.55 epot/GCD for 36 GCDs every 48
(3731.73 * 10 + 166.66 * 2 + 1227.55 * 36) / 48 = 1705.05 epot/GCD

WAR BB>BB>SE w/ CDs used on average:
BB>BB>SE: (((((150 + 200 * 3 + 280 * 5) * 2) / .9) + (150 + 190 + 270)) / 9 + 83.33) * 1.2 * .75 * 2 * 1.1 = 1350.3 epot/GCD

As such, a WAR that's just generating enmity normally is always going to be outdone by a PLD but a WAR that knows how to leverage their CDs is going to kick the crap out of anything else in existence. The math isn't perfectly accurate since I'm ignoring Wrath as well as Wrath consumers (and ignoring IR in the optimal use case, though that's because, due to the short duration of that phase, the variation in enmity based upon crits is monumental) since Wrath increases enmity generation and damage (by about 1% per stack, over time) whereas Wrath consumers (IB and SC) generate less enmity per GCD than the GCDs they would be replacing (not to mention messing up relative uptimes, dropping enmity even more) and BB>BB>BB>SE is technically a slightly better enmity rotation than BB>BB>SE even if I never see anyone use it because it's a fair deal worse damage, but it's close enough to correlate with what's in game.

It should also be mentioned that this is looking exclusively at WAR maximizing enmity generation rather than mitigation or damage. PLD has a single rotation but WAR has a multitude and their higher mitigation rotations generate less enmity and damage thanks to SP being the lowest damage rotation while simultaneously needing to be used as every other combo in order to maintain 100% uptime (if you use it every 3 combos, you'll have 1-2 GCDs without it, depending upon whether you use IB or not). A vast majority of the time, an optimally played WAR will actually be generating less than their maximum enmity because it's not needed. Personally, I don't even touch BB outside of the Unchained + Berserk attack string I mentioned before; that alone generates enough enmity that I can keep aggro off of pretty much anyone except for another tank who's using their high enmity rotation while in tank stance (and, even then, I just have to use something like BB>SP to keep it off of them).

If you're a PLD that's getting beaten by a WAR, one of 3 things is true: the WAR is using their CDs optimally and you never stood a chance, you're not using CDs but the WAR is, or neither of you is using CDs and you're simply really bad at playing PLD.

You'll find similar results when you compare mitigation as well because a WAR is able to get more when it's needed and less when it's not. A WAR that knows how to properly leverage the tools at their disposal is truly a force to be reckoned with. It's one of the reasons why a lot of top end players enjoy WAR (the other major one being that PLD is boring as hell). It's also why you see a lot of stories about awesome WARs but end up seeing so many absolutely horrible ones in game.

If you want to get right down to it, PLD hasn't taken any hit on tanking since nothing about their enmity generation has been changed since the game's inception (with the exception of the global increase to tank stance enmity generation which affected both tanks identically). WAR has gotten *slightly* buffed (Unchained down to 120 from 180, though that wasn't really a big deal; the bigger effect was separating Wrath stacks from the +healing so that you could actually *use* said Wrath consumers without hurting yourself) but it's not like PLD is in such a bad place. You're just perturbed that you can't faceroll as a PLD and perform as well as a WAR that actually knows what they're doing.

[LukeyP666]

As Kitru has so eloquently put it, if you're not using his uber enmity opener, but still playing Warrior as you should in terms of keeping up Storms Path while tanking, then you won't be keeping hate from a Paladin who is in Shield Oath, spamming their Rage of Halone combo.

The crux of it though is that you really shouldn't ever be fighting another Tank for hate, and should be working together to perform as best as you can for your team.

The only place that I have ever had proper hate wars is on Acheron in Crystal Tower, and this was only ever with a full FC Party against the other Tank who was a friend. Me on Warrior, him on Paladin, both near BiS pre-2.2, and with Kitru's uber opener, I left him for dead in terms of hate anyways