Just realized - if you're a casual gamer, ideally....

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

I would like to say to OP. Great discussion article. It is like an editorial. Love it. Didn't really read all in here, but I am glad there is a fun and thought-provoking discussion. Very interesting.

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

Oh, and I would like to add, I am now a casual gamer (in my opinion). But not by choice. I work 10 hours a day, live with my girlfriend, and have other responsibilities. By that alone, I don't have time for anything, much less video games. I try to cram in as much gaming as I can, and I see the value in it as a 'cheap-fun,' unfortunately I got to engage with my lady friend (which usually involves spending money). I will end by saying FFXI saved me a lot of money through college and graduate school.

P.S. I try to be hardcore on weekends.

[Verecund]

Most MMOs rolling off the markets these days develop some content with casuals specifically in mind. And to be perfectly fair, this game probably won't appeal to casuals at all because the gameplay is not on par with single-player RPGs and the content is for the most part either non-existant or existentially boring.

(Also note that some of those hardcore players of yesterday eventually get lives of their own and, consequently, "go casual".....)

[Cendres]

Furthermore any healthy society and/or ecosystem has different types living in coexistence, we may not play the same way but what one person does will invariably affect another's even though and maybe especially since they are different. It's not because the benefit of casual gamers aren't apparent to you that they do not contribute to your own gaming.

Please let's try to be less intolerant and narrow minded and try to focus on fun things for the game. We are not going to agree on ALL the game's features but if we can get to the understanding that what one group wants may very well benefit the other in the long run we can stop this ridiculous tug of war we've got going. it's utterly pointless and destructive.

[Gidonoidon_Sur]

Furthermore any healthy society and/or ecosystem has different types living in coexistence, we may not play the same way but what one person does will invariably affect another's even though and maybe especially since they are different. It's not because the benefit of casual gamers aren't apparent to you that they do not contribute to your own gaming.

Please let's try to be less intolerant and narrow minded and try to focus on fun things for the game. We are not going to agree on ALL the game's features but if we can get to the understanding that what one group wants may very well benefit the other in the long run we can stop this ridiculous tug of war we've got going. it's utterly pointless and destructive.

Well said. Went all macro-economics on us. Like it.

[Amage]

To repeat again and again to try to have some people understand it, casual means 'time available to play', why some people keep on thinking that casual equals easy mode?
As a good example, CoP missions (pre cap removal) were casual friendly (did not take hours and hours just for one mission for an organized group of friends) and hardcore due to the high difficulty of some of the fights. This is exactly the type of content that can cater to both casual and hardcore!
But nooooo, some unskilled player just cried that CoP was too hard and it got nerfed... In my opinion, a MMO should set differences in terms of good and bad gamer, not casual vs hardcore which usually ends up (for the wrong reasons I might add) being either 'easy mode' vs 'time sink'. Ideally, none of the laters should apply in a MMOs that could cater to both casual and hardcore.
About my own experience, I am casual (and also plan to play for more than 2-3 years >.>) and the 'easy mode' direction FFXIV is taking does not please me. On top of that, I was kind of happy to 'struggle' the rank46 mission. It took me a few attemps and I was happy to not just beat it by spamming 1,1,1,WS,cure rince and repeat. It could have been even harder that I would still have enjoyed because I finally was facing some 'challenge'.

In game world those who can play 1-10hrs a weak dubbed "Casual"
Those who can play 20-40-90(lol) a week are dubbed "Hardcore"

And your thoughs on CoP WHAT!!! casual cop was one of the things in the game that before abyssea came out their were still some people who didnt have rajas ring because the fight was insane. "Three Path" Mid-High "Airship Fight" Or 6-4 - Hard x Hard x Really SE x Rage Quit (For some) then you had 8-1 - 8-4 before that you had 8-3 Pot fight which if you werent good at your job your pretty much not going to pass it .... OHH OHHHH OHHHHHHHH and their was xp loss with it too CoP casual my donkey

[Anty]

P.S. Casual =/= "easy, quick, vapid, unchallenged, etc"

if only mmo developers would make casual challenging. I don't mind faster, challenging gameplay (at least as a part of an mmo) but a lot of developers tend to make things so even a 5 year old retard can finish stuff. They mix up casual with retarded. This is my main problem.

I think a lot of the "casuals shouldn't play an mmo" thoughts wouldn't be there, if
- the devs wouldn't kill the meaning of an mmo by making casual mmo player = solo rpg but online (doesn't make sense to me but that's the way they all approach the casual stuff.
- casuals don't have time and (like yoshi posted) need to be able to play while having a mobile on the other hand...
which means => easy mode and not challenging. I think that part of the letter made it way too clear.
But exactly these casuals also change mmos like underwear because they are so easy and not challenging.
And with challenging i don't mean timesinks (even though i don't mind fun timesinks but i understand if ppl don't like it),
i mean real hard, and fun content.

[kanjitai]

I have said this before and I will say it again. Hardcores are the ones with a problem. I don't know how they do it. I just like to have fun with games. Even if I can't do as much as a hardcore it's nice when I get into a guild with people I can just talk with or be like anyone need help and have fun doing something.

[Amage]

I have said this before and I will say it again. Hardcores are the ones with a problem. I don't know how they do it. I just like to have fun with games. Even if I can't do as much as a hardcore it's nice when I get into a guild with people I can just talk with or be like anyone need help and have fun doing something.

but you would love to get what we get with out even trying

[kukurumei]

Unfortunately FtP and increasing console games are where casuals are.

Subscription based games just don't draw casuals anymore, not when there are much better alternatives.

Just look at any Free to Play MMO...they make most of their money on casuals, simple from the allure of being free.