Rank cap increase every 1-2 years discussion thread

[Duelle]

And I feel like I have to explain what you meant by Blizzard making core class changes, because that's a VERY good point to be made in favor of level cap raising.

When Blizzard obsoletes content with a new expansion pack, it makes it very easy to start every class and encounter with a blank slate. Since only an extreme minority will ever be going back to do the old content, they can change class skills and roles around at will and design the new content to fit around these new classes.

If they still had to keep this old content in mind, these balance changes would become almost impossible. It would mean that either the balance changes have to fit the old play styles/end game model, or that they'd have to go back and re-do all of the old content to fit the new class balance changes. It's the reason why you never see dramatic class changes until a new expansion is released.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[AuctionGirl]

You can add more crafting skills, add cross-proffesion recipes, make new recipes required specific materials, that are obtainable ony in new zones. New Recipes cloud need specific perks you have to select. Really exapdning game in horizontal manner have endless possibilites.
If you can't imagine that... Then well.

But that still doesn't resolve the fact that you no longer have people buying shards/crystals/materials to increase abilities, you soon stump the economy because too many crafters at the same ranks making too many products. Soon crafting becomes a gil loss hobby and makes people quit that aspect of the game. Soon they quit because horizontal can only go so far, then you reach limits. You cant keep something new and fresh and not negate older content/items. ONLY Horizontal Progression is death to an MMO. Vertical & Horizontal Progression works, but you will always end up eventually negating old content, its impossible to have NEW stuff that people WANT without negating old stuff.

[_C-a-e-r-i-t-h_]

But that still doesn't resolve the fact that you no longer have people buying shards/crystals/materials to increase abilities, you soon stump the economy because too many crafters at the same ranks making too many products. Soon crafting becomes a gil loss hobby and makes people quit that aspect of the game. Soon they quit because horizontal can only go so far, then you reach limits. You cant keep something new and fresh and not negate older content/items. ONLY Horizontal Progression is death to an MMO. Vertical & Horizontal Progression works, but you will always end up eventually negating old content, its impossible to have NEW stuff that people WANT without negating old stuff.

So find new ways to encourage people to buy shards and crystals. Someone posted in another thread a brilliant suggestion about using crystals as part of durability/repair. I'm sure S-E could think of a few other ways to keep crafting relevant.

[Ichi]

I am for Horizontal Progression and needed to post this so that the devs know the opinion is strong. I think it would be a mistake for SE to ignore that aspect because it made ffxi very unique and enjoyable as a long-term mmo. I realize that this is not the most urgent topic atm but if we could get some sort of dev post regarding vertical and horizontal progression that would be great for me. I have been sticking with this game for a long time but if I start to see vertical progression I may be gone as it makes my achievements insignificant and that's not why I play FFXIV.

The majority of the counter arguments for horizontal progression seem uninformed on the actual topic perhaps you haven't experience such a system. Any argument of 'new' be it content, areas, raids, classes, none of those things require a raise in level cap, and if you don't think so I must assume that you have not experienced a game with horizontal progression and if you have and did not enjoy it, oh well.

SE could raise the cap to some level and leave it static for a long period of time (3 years or more) and the game can stay fresh without completely wiping out old content utility, or even physically wiping it off the face of the world a la cataclysm (not that anyone missed it).

I strongly urge the fans and devs to keep this topic strong we need horizontal progression to create a more immersive experience with the longevity of such games as XI.

edit: 'sidegrade' is an insulting term for the differences between na'shir manteel, blood scale mail, duelist's tabard, crimson tabard, and dalmatica. (point is different gear is just as highly sought after as 1 piece of gear, and if you only want one piece of gear per slot you would be severely lacking in your ig effectiveness)

[iniside]

But that still doesn't resolve the fact that you no longer have people buying shards/crystals/materials to increase abilities, you soon stump the economy because too many crafters at the same ranks making too many products. Soon crafting becomes a gil loss hobby and makes people quit that aspect of the game. Soon they quit because horizontal can only go so far, then you reach limits. You cant keep something new and fresh and not negate older content/items. ONLY Horizontal Progression is death to an MMO. Vertical & Horizontal Progression works, but you will always end up eventually negating old content, its impossible to have NEW stuff that people WANT without negating old stuff.

Yes. EVE-Online have stumped economy because there is no levels. Heck there is even no new materials every expansion. Now what they did they are just adding new recipes, that are much harder to make, and people must think how to make them.
I cloud stress word THINK.. Here..

[Physic]

Inreasing level cap, means you have run out of ideas how to expand game.
Vertical Expand, was never and never will be good. GAme should exapnd in Horizontal matter. You should be able to do as many things as possible on single level, and shouldn't be forced to level again and again to do more things.


You are entirely wrong. You can expand game in horizontal manner. You can add Alternate Advacnment, Perks, Feats, whatever you imagine. In case of FFXIV you can add more classes (which is best solution to expand game). You can add more dungeons, more content, and everything at single level cap forever. Higher level cap means only you have to hit it again. And again. And again. And then you get bored and quit.
Blizzard is not really good example on how the game shoukld be developed. Those guys have no idea what to do with game since TBC.

You can add more crafting skills, add cross-proffesion recipes, make new recipes required specific materials, that are obtainable ony in new zones. New Recipes cloud need specific perks you have to select. Really exapdning game in horizontal manner have endless possibilites.
If you can't imagine that... Then well.

some people just dont want to increase in level, if you could increase in level without grinding exp, say it was event based, would you still think its a bad idea?

[AuctionGirl]

Ichi,

Horizontal Progression like FFXI did with Merits was the same as Vertical Progression, except for the fact that new armor/weapons added into the game really made no difference to the game at all. The devs basically wasted their time making this new content that no one wanted to do 1000 times because they wanted this sought after weapon/armor.

Anyone who REALLY wants Horizontal Progression needs think about what you really loved about FFXI...

Was it the journey to get what you wanted? (Vertical Progression)
Or was it the standing around Jeuno with the best weapons/armor waiting for the 500th trip to dynamis? (Horizontal Progression)

I know for me the journey to get these items are A LOT more fun than it was once I achieved it all. Once you do it all, whats left to do? Guess its time for a new MMO.

[Ichi]

some people just dont want to increase in level, if you could increase in level without grinding exp, say it was event based, would you still think its a bad idea?

I would absolutely still think it was a bad idea i may even go as far as saying that it's a worse idea than if you had to level it. It should take time, we are not arguing against longevity we are arguing for it this type of comment is further proof that the majority of people in thread do not even have their heads around horizontal progression.

[Ichi]

Once I do it all I need to get it all. Once I get it all the game needs more content if i got it too fast then the content was too easy simple as that.

To answer your question I liked the raiding I only leveled for a year on monk and 5 other classes each in 3~4 months so out of 6 years that i played i spent less than 2 and a half leveling and the majority going on nm events 6-7 days out of the week with my friends I enjoyed doing all the content even if it wasnt my first time because there was a lot of it to do. I never did the same limbus realm or dynamis or sky nm in one week it was different things every day and different versions every week.

If SE would have raised the cap for salvage then most likely salvage gear would have been so good that i would have stopped doing all the other content all together and only do salvage that to me is much much more boring.

Auction Girl
what's your experience with xi?

[AuctionGirl]

Yes. EVE-Online have stumped economy because there is no levels. Heck there is even no new materials every expansion. Now what they did they are just adding new recipes, that are much harder to make, and people must think how to make them.
I cloud stress word THINK.. Here..

This doesn't solve the fact that having a higher ranked crafting class is basically worthless. Just because you add a new recipe in doesn't resolve the need for progression. So you want your OLD armor/weapons to stay relevant, but want to add in new recipes that doesn't negate those OLD weapons/armors? Why craft them? One way or another you negate older content. Vertical Progression keeps all classes growing, keeps new abilities, new strategies, new things coming.

Horizontal there are limits, and if you are too narrow minded to see this, that is sad.