SUGGESTIONS - OFFICIAL ARMORY/PHYSICAL LEVEL THREAD

[Alcide]

Copied from another thread:
First of all I have to say I love the armory syste, being able to fully customize your own character is a great thing, but honestly I think the current system gives the player too much freedom.

For exemple, all of the DD want all of the buffs of every class and they can have them working perfectly fine. This is wrong in 2 points:
1- I'm forced to play not one, but many classes I don't like just for one skill.
2- Every DD ends up with the same strategy, with the same build and using the same skills.

I guess the main issue is that we can equip almost everything we want. Increasing the amount of action points to equip a skill of another class we won't be able anymore to equip everything we like, we'll have to think wisely and chose what it's worth to get and what is not.

Even better, the amount of action points needed should be different from class to class, in example, Lancers amongst the meele are the ones with more MP and more buffing skills so they should spend less ap then the other DoW when equiping a DoM skill; Marauders are be able to tank like Gladiators, so when equiping Glad's skills they should spend less ap then Archers and Lancers.

About spells, I think the issue can be addressed with a better affinity system too. Right now DoM spells performed by DoW are weaker, but still worth to be done, especially when playing solo. IMHO they should enhance the affinity system making it worthless to cast a spell by a DoW class IF they have not certain requirements (affinity+ traits, affinity+ equips, ect).

This + different affinity based on class, not on disciple, would help a lot in the class uniqueness issue, yet would keep the system open to customization.

Plus I think that the ability to cross class shouldn't be applied to WS. Like how is it possible that I can use Arrow Helix with my lancer? o.O I know this would mean getting rid of the cross class regimen, but honestly they aren't that worth ^^'


Something about Physical Level:

At first I thought it was awesome, PL + Armory made me think about something like Guild Wars, where you can drastically change your character role, but it end up in nothing like that.

I think the main issue is that stats aren't really doing much, for instance you can be a good healer even with 50 mind, they should make stats more effective.

Plus they have to find a way to make it easy to switch your stat build, I guess the converter traits where meant for this purpose, but they fail in 2 points:
1- they don't convert enaugh stats, you still have to reallocate many times.
2- they don't suffer the rank's cap, so they are used to increase a stat power rather then balance them all.

[Sorel]

Onidemon, I understand what you are saying. I do not agree with everything you suggested though.

Automatic stat point allotment would make every naked (nothing equipped) Conjurer statistically identical to every other naked Conjurer. It makes things easier for bookkeeping, but characters will lose some the RPG aspect of playing the game.

Removing Class Ranks and replacing it with weaponskill levels, then allowing classes to use more than one weapon essentially eliminates the Armory System. Going down that road would require significantly more development work than keeping the Armory System and building on top of it.

Using a talent tree to specialize Classes into Jobs is one of the things the dev team is considering. However, it does make it much harder for players to come up with unique character builds, as well as mix and match abilities for a particular style of play.

So, unfortunately, I do not believe what you described is the way for SE to proceed. As a result, I do not have anything more positive to say on it. I apologize.

[AuronYevon]

Personally Physical level is fairly easy to obtain and doesnt have a main purpose right now. Most of the traits such as Dex, Str, Int, Pie dont have much of an effect. I would be for either completely fixing the current system and make caps for each class this way there is a little bit more job uniqueness with the addition of being able to set up how you want your points allocated saved automatically for each job class, or completely wipe out that system and bring in more of a system that FFXI used. This way it will still benefit the players that are more dedicated and job classes will get more of a specialized niche.

And to help ease the feeling of losing progress if the current system is scrapped and a new system for example like FFXI was in place. If SE allowed everyone to be capped on all attributes for your rank, would that change your minds. We all know that one day the top rank from 50 to whatever will increase and basically if you have a rank 50 job already most likely you will also have capped out your physical level. So it would be more like a swap from one system to another. Nothing was lost and you only have more to gain in the process.

[Onidemon]

Copied from another thread:
First of all I have to say I love the armory syste, being able to fully customize your own character is a great thing, but honestly I think the current system gives the player too much freedom.

For exemple, all of the DD want all of the buffs of every class and they can have them working perfectly fine. This is wrong in 2 points:
1- I'm forced to play not one, but many classes I don't like just for one skill.
2- Every DD ends up with the same strategy, with the same build and using the same skills.

I guess the main issue is that we can equip almost everything we want. Increasing the amount of action points to equip a skill of another class we won't be able anymore to equip everything we like, we'll have to think wisely and chose what it's worth to get and what is not.

Even better, the amount of action points needed should be different from class to class, in example, Lancers amongst the meele are the ones with more MP and more buffing skills so they should spend less ap then the other DoW when equiping a DoM skill; Marauders are be able to tank like Gladiators, so when equiping Glad's skills they should spend less ap then Archers and Lancers.

About spells, I think the issue can be addressed with a better affinity system too. Right now DoM spells performed by DoW are weaker, but still worth to be done, especially when playing solo. IMHO they should enhance the affinity system making it worthless to cast a spell by a DoW class IF they have not certain requirements (affinity+ traits, affinity+ equips, ect).

This + different affinity based on class, not on disciple, would help a lot in the class uniqueness issue, yet would keep the system open to customization.

Plus I think that the ability to cross class shouldn't be applied to WS. Like how is it possible that I can use Arrow Helix with my lancer? o.O I know this would mean getting rid of the cross class regimen, but honestly they aren't that worth ^^'


Something about Physical Level:

At first I thought it was awesome, PL + Armory made me think about something like Guild Wars, where you can drastically change your character role, but it end up in nothing like that.

I think the main issue is that stats aren't really doing much, for instance you can be a good healer even with 50 mind, they should make stats more effective.

Plus they have to find a way to make it easy to switch your stat build, I guess the converter traits where meant for this purpose, but they fail in 2 points:
1- they don't convert enaugh stats, you still have to reallocate many times.
2- they don't suffer the rank's cap, so they are used to increase a stat power rather then balance them all.

It is an interesting idea and i think it shows that we all agree on one point and it's that the free for all cross/class abilities is broken and needs some restriction.

Restricting the amount of points per class would be one way but that would make other complain as per why their class can't use as many abilities and that it is not fair. It would also still give room for abuse to the system and pushing people to all use the same abilities no matter what class.

But having abilities restricted to your class or class type sounds very good. It is true that it makes no sense for a gladiator to be able to use ranged abilities? Or a Gladiator using ICE/Fire/WIND etc spells? even if useful it makes no sense unless that gladiator is somehow speced to be a dark knight.

[Onidemon]

Onidemon, I understand what you are saying. I do not agree with everything you suggested though.

Automatic stat point allotment would make every naked (nothing equipped) Conjurer statistically identical to every other naked Conjurer. It makes things easier for bookkeeping, but characters will lose some the RPG aspect of playing the game.

Removing Class Ranks and replacing it with weaponskill levels, then allowing classes to use more than one weapon essentially eliminates the Armory System. Going down that road would require significantly more development work than keeping the Armory System and building on top of it.

Using a talent tree to specialize Classes into Jobs is one of the things the dev team is considering. However, it does make it much harder for players to come up with unique character builds, as well as mix and match abilities for a particular style of play.

So, unfortunately, I do not believe what you described is the way for SE to proceed. As a result, I do not have anything more positive to say on it. I apologize.

It all made sens in my head at the moment i was writing it but not so much anymore. Thanks for the feedback!

[Esoteric]

There should be a UI available to choose 1-3 classes to pick abilities from. The combination of classes chosen should alter your class name as well, for example: Gladiator + Conjurer yields Paladin.

Also there should be a dagger/knife-specific class. No thief or rogue-like class seems strange.

[Onidemon]

Personally Physical level is fairly easy to obtain and doesnt have a main purpose right now. Most of the traits such as Dex, Str, Int, Pie dont have much of an effect. I would be for either completely fixing the current system and make caps for each class this way there is a little bit more job uniqueness with the addition of being able to set up how you want your points allocated saved automatically for each job class, or completely wipe out that system and bring in more of a system that FFXI used. This way it will still benefit the players that are more dedicated and job classes will get more of a specialized niche.

And to help ease the feeling of losing progress if the current system is scrapped and a new system for example like FFXI was in place. If SE allowed everyone to be capped on all attributes for your rank, would that change your minds. We all know that one day the top rank from 50 to whatever will increase and basically if you have a rank 50 job already most likely you will also have capped out your physical level. So it would be more like a swap from one system to another. Nothing was lost and you only have more to gain in the process.

While true that stats don't have much of an effect right now, Yoshi-p did state in a recent intreview, with ffxivcore i believe that the calculation for stats are currently being redone from scratch. So when that is done, stat will influence a lot your class.

While true there is some ways to make PL better.... is there any way to make it needed? Not just make it more useful but indispensable. Just the fact that points allocation can only be partially reassigned and then again after some times has passed, it comes in direct conflict with the purpose of this system which is to make leveling multiple classes easier.

I mean if we don't find a way to make the PL needed and become a system that greatly influences our experience with the game, it just become dead weight and should be done away with.


I'm not sure about which FF XI system you are talking... i only played during the first 6 months of it's NA release... But do keep in mind that SE does want FF XIV to stay away from FF XI as they do not want this to turn into FF XI-2. They want to be able to keep both FF XIV and FF XI at the same time and provide 2 different experiences in each of them.. that won't happen if they become too similar.

[Akumu]

I think this topic is pointless for the majority has already spoken and most people around the word would like to get rid of the physical level system(Poll Results). Unless the other 3 forums create a similar topic and create massive uproar will the poll results be countered(which i doubt). That will also just show people are clueless about what they want. Your idea also reminds me of FFXI system which was very stupid because i get a bunch of weapons i can use but only one is worth using. Weapon skill levels is a outdated way of going by things.

[JakeRoon]

Physical level :
Scrap it.

Amory System:
Leave it as is, it works great. You can develop your own character with your own play style.

[Onidemon]

I think this topic is pointless for the majority has already spoken and most people around the word would like to get rid of the physical level system(Poll Results). Unless the other 3 forums create a similar topic and create massive uproar will the poll results be countered(which i doubt). That will also just show people are clueless about what they want. Your idea also reminds me of FFXI system which was very stupid because i get a bunch of weapons i can use but only one is worth using. Weapon skill levels is a outdated way of going by things.

This is exactly the pointless comments i was asking pple from refraining to post. You don't like the idea of this thread? Then please go look at the hundred of threads there is out there and maybe you will find something that interest you. And maybe then you will be able to post comments that are constructive and not just plain negative.