Dark Knight

[Exstal]

I think Ninja will make its appearance before Dark Knight.

[Bloodclaw]

I think Ninja will make its appearance before Dark Knight.

Probably assassin actually, but yes, DRK not first.

[Exstal]

Probably assassin actually, but yes, DRK not first.

Assassin is pretty uncommon in the FF realms, being that it's only in 3 games, playable in 2 of those games. I'd be surprised if they brought in Assassin instead of Ninja.

[Bloodclaw]

Assassin is pretty uncommon in the FF realms, being that it's only in 3 games, playable in 2 of those games. I'd be surprised if they brought in Assassin instead of Ninja.

Well the NPC we saw in the 2.2 storyline is wearing the assassin Iconic outfit. Source. However with that rat tail of her's she is obviously a rat race vs. the common rabbit race.

If they do add in an actual ninja, I think it might actually be a tank, if they already have an assassin job in the game. Historic ninja don't like actually killing and utilised a number of defensive tactics in their acts of escaping. Cool video on it.

[Kitru]

Well the NPC we saw in the 2.2 storyline is wearing the assassin Iconic outfit.

It's not the Assassin "iconic" outfit (not entirely sure it can be "iconic" given that you're talking about an outfit only used in 2 games where every other implementation looks nothing the same). The assassin outfit you're referring to has a shortcloak, jumper/onesie, separated sleeves/armguards, and a face/head wrap for the mask. Yugiri has a hood, a tunic, bracers, gloves, chainmail pants and boots, and either a pullup from her tunic/undershirt to cover her face or a tighly pulled mask. About the only thing that they have in common is the mask.

Using the outfit as "evidence" that she's an assassin rather than a ninja is ludicrous since it's not even the assassin outfit.

What she's wearing is a closer approximation of the NIN outfit which is generally comprised of a hood, mask, tunic, bracers/armguards, loose pants, and boots. The only thing different about Yugiri's outfit from the traditional NIN outfit is that she has tight pants. She's a NIN, not an assassin.

If they do add in an actual ninja, I think it might actually be a tank, if they already have an assassin job in the game.

Yoshi has already said that NIN will never be a tank because the idea is ludicrous on the face of it. NIN were *stealthy* which is completely and totally contradictory to the idea of a tank. Nowhere in the entire FF series can you find an example where NIN was actually intended to be a tank, and the only example where you *can* find wherein NIN was a tank (FFXI), it wasn't because of the developers thinking it was a keen idea; it was because the devs made a stupid mistake by giving NIN too powerful of a personal survival tool, and the player base completely changed their metagame around said ability. In FFXI, the only reason the devs made NIN a straight up tank was because they had to cede to the player metagame; if the players hadn't turned them into tanks and done so to a monumental degree such that they were often the *preferred* tank, the devs would never have allowed NIN to be tanks.

NIN is going to be DPS. There's no question about it.

Historic ninja don't like actually killing and utilised a number of defensive tactics in their acts of escaping. Cool video on it.

Are you seriously using a video about video game ninjas as a link to historic ninjas? The "defensive tactics" of the historic ninja were almost entirely evasive techniques; not "dodge the sword" but "run away or hide so that they can't catch me". I really don't see a tank doing that.

[Bloodclaw]

It's not the Assassin "iconic" outfit (not entirely sure it can be "iconic" given that you're talking about an outfit only used in 2 games where every other implementation looks nothing the same).

Hold it right there....



Source

Zero Argument here. This is the assassin iconic outfit there is zero disputing that fact.

[Kitru]

Zero Argument here. This is the assassin iconic outfit there is zero disputing that fact.

Saying there is zero disputing it when you're not actually tackling the counterargument doesn't mean that there's no disputing it. It just means that you're ignoring any counterargument because you're too married to your own idea that you can't fathom any possible contradiction.

You must not have read anything I said concerning the actual break down of the outfit because, if you did, you'd see that almost none of their garments actually the same. All you looked at was a vague similarity in the color scheme and a facewrap and immediately concluded that they were the same thing.

Compare Yugiri's hood, mask, loose shirt, and arm guards to this:



Yugiri's outfit is essentially that (the NIN outfit) with a purple color scheme and no embellishment on the hood.

Seriously. Go and break down the specific garments that are being worn between the classic NIN, the FFTA/2 Assassin, and Yugiri. Yugiri's outfit has way more in common with NIN than Assassin. The only major similarity between Yugiri and the Assassin is the ears and the mask (but the head wrap is all Assassin). Everything else is completely different.

[Bloodclaw]

Are you seriously using a video about video game ninjas as a link to historic ninjas? The "defensive tactics" of the historic ninja were almost entirely evasive techniques; not "dodge the sword" but "run away or hide so that they can't catch me". I really don't see a tank doing that.

If you actually WATCH the video the creator was comparing fake Video Game Ninjas to REAL ones. Better luck next time on this one.

*Trot* *Trot* *Trot*
Hear that? Sounds like goats on YOUR bridge. Better go get'em!

[Kitru]

If you actually WATCH the video the creator was comparing fake Video Game Ninjas to REAL ones. Better luck next time on this one.

I did, and he's still not using real historical ninjas. He's using the modern concept of the ninja that was exaggerated to create the video game ninjas that he's bashing. His concept of a ninja is only marginally more accurate than the ones the video game uses (dangling upside down and crawling around on rooftops is not something that a ninja would do all the time, much less break someone's neck).

His "real" ninjas are all running around in the "trademark" ninja garb in which there is not a lick of evidence that ninja actually wore. He also acts as if ninja were absolutely and totally obsessed with keeping their identities hidden by concealing their faces (seriously, he's massively hung up on this). A vast majority of the time a ninja would be running around looking like a peasant, blending into crowds because it's a helluva lot easier to get away when you look inconspicuous than when you're dressed "like a ninja" (even at night; hiding behind something or looking like an innocent bystander is *infinitely* more effective than trying to hide in shadows), not to mention that a vast majority of ninja work was just like modern day spycraft: gathering information, sabotage, and only *rarely* killing someone (even then, more likely to be accomplished with poison or some other indirect method). Blending into the background is also why the traditional ninja weapons were old farm tools or very small, easily hidden weapons (real shuriken are tiny and the "throwing star" never really used; shuriken were more like large throwing needles or kunai): the ninja would look like a peasant working in the field, harvesting crops rather than an obvious threat.

The "ninja outfit" that he goes on and one about is a construct of popular culture, not history. It was derived from kabuki theater where the stagehands who ran around behind the actors were dressed in black so that they blended in with the black backdrop. Since someone walking up behind an actor kind of signal an impending assassination/attack which ruins the surprise, the "assassin" would be dressed as a stagehand so that everyone ignored him and "kill" the actor with no one suspecting. Since assassinations are pretty popular in historical plays and a technique like that only works until everyone expects it, people started equating an actor dressed in the stagehand's outfit as the stereotypical "ninja", much like people think that spies are like James Bond. The different colored suits were simply reverse extrapolation of the black suit as people tried to account for straight black being bad camouflage (unless you're, you know, in a kabuki theater using a black backdrop).

That video has less to do with historical ninjas (as in "actually happened way back when") than it does with the modern day concept of a ninja extrapolated in reverse by people who love ninjas more than history. It's just like the modern view of the samurai, cowboy, or almost any other popular historical archetype (interesting note: the code of Bushido was actually invented by Japanese Imperialists as propaganda as a way to mythologize their heritage rather than realize that samurai were simply a caste of people with swords that were often little more than celebrated policemen). People are less interested in the bland reality than they are in exaggeration and "rule of cool". The guy obviously *likes* ninjas and has more than a bit of a weeaboo streak in him, but that's basically blinded him to any idea that the ninja might not be as cool as he thought they were.

[Bloodclaw]

Yoshi has already said that NIN will never be a tank because the idea is ludicrous on the face of it. NIN were *stealthy* which is completely and totally contradictory to the idea of a tank. Nowhere in the entire FF series can you find an example where NIN was actually intended to be a tank, and the only example where you *can* find wherein NIN was a tank (FFXI), it wasn't because of the developers thinking it was a keen idea; it was because the devs made a stupid mistake by giving NIN too powerful of a personal survival tool, and the player base completely changed their metagame around said ability. In FFXI, the only reason the devs made NIN a straight up tank was because they had to cede to the player metagame; if the players hadn't turned them into tanks and done so to a monumental degree such that they were often the *preferred* tank, the devs would never have allowed NIN to be tanks.

This is a fair statement, jobs/class appearance has changed depending on the game so the ninja in this game could be snagging the assassin's iconic look to better fit the game. However if this is the standing opinion, we might not get a ninja class in the game by name, but rather the ninja class by name of assassin, but by name alone.