My Opinion on why WAR is the superior Tank.

[Traek]

Yeah, exactly.

I think Turn 7 was used as an example earlier in this thread. To me T7 isn't a DPS race. It's a battle of attrition. At some point, a good Paladin might decide "Okay, we're stable now but my WHM is running on fumes. My SCH has Cursed Shriek and needs to hide. My WAR just picked up the Lamia Prosector. At this point, we're much more likely to wipe due to a dead tank than lack of damage. I'm gonna pop some CDs and Stoneskin Spam the Warrior."

Lol, this was the whole point of the comment. You guys are trying to blanket statement things that simply aren't true. There is plenty of situations a stoneskin can cushion healing required, save a tank/DD/healer or help with MP starved healers. Granted the new Coil bosses don't lend themselves to it quite as much, but looking at old content with fights like Ifrit EX, you could literally spam Stoneskin on the other tank during his stacks and be incredibly helpful to the healers. T5 had plenty of situations where you can at least mitigate some autoattacks/plummets to help with the impending death sentence. Not to mention a WHM moving for liquid hells and whatever else there might be.

My point being, if you can tactfully mitigate heavy incoming damage, you should. Blaming healers for not being perfect, while they are most likely picking up others imperfections is rather silly. Your zomgl33tdps PLD can take a 3 second cast to keep the run moving smoothly. No one is talking just random casting stone skin for the hell of it all across the party.

[bokchoykn]

Lol, this was the whole point of the comment. You guys are trying to blanket statement things that simply aren't true.

I didn't use any blanket statements. I said that there are exceptions where PLD Stoneskin is worth it. I just said they are few and far between. That's quite the oppsoite of a blanket statement.

[Traek]

I didn't use any blanket statements. I said that there are exceptions where PLD Stoneskin is worth it. I just said they are few and far between. That's quite the oppsoite of a blanket statement.

Maybe being picky on the details but...

Time to ignore a lot of fluff here.
Tanking is tanking, and DPS is DPS like Kitru said.
If were looking at the game objectively, the best way to help your group is to kill the boss as fast as possible. (T6) So Tank DPS is important. End of Story. (Not Stone Skin, not Cure, Shield Swipe, and Attacks)

If a Paladins SS is what saved his life, then your healers are the problem with clearing content, not your mitigation.

I can relate this to asking a Damage Dealer to swap over to his Class, and Pick up Provoke when the Main Tank is low on HP. Noone would do that, because it's not the DPS class's Job to do so in a raid.

What people seem to be proposing is carrying bad players, instead of fixing up bad player skill.Your in essence reinforcing bad habits by allowing people to take unnecessary damage.

I'm with Kitru and ZDamned on this one.

...

There is no fight in the game where Paladin Stoneskin is important.

Seems to contradict this:

I didn't use any blanket statements.

[Namasu]

Maybe being picky on the details but...

They meant that stoneskin isn't *important* in the sense that it make or break a fight but acknowledged that they are *useful* in few situation. Not really a blanket statement.

[Traek]

They meant that stoneskin isn't *important* in the sense that it make or break a fight but acknowledged that they are *useful* in few situation. Not really a blanket statement.

But it very well can make or break a fight. Bok even gave an example of it in T7. We can argue over the word "important" but in reality ZDamned (mostly) and others are giving off the idea Stone Skin should be taking a back seat to their own DPS, because their party is bad if they needed it. This is not good information for tanks looking to better themselves, and their raid.

[ZDamned]

But it very well can make or break a fight. Bok even gave an example of it in T7. We can argue over the word "important" but in reality ZDamned (mostly) and others are giving off the idea Stone Skin should be taking a back seat to their own DPS, because their party is bad if they needed it. This is not good information for tanks looking to better themselves, and their raid.

You know what else can make or break a fight? A good healer who doesn't need a 3rd person casting stone skin for them.

[Traek]

You know what else can make or break a fight? A good healer who doesn't need a 3rd person casting stone skin for them.

And there you have it. Elitism at its finest.

[Kitru]

You know what else can make or break a fight? A good healer who doesn't need a 3rd person casting stone skin for them.

30 DPS can also make or break a fight, as can Cover. *Anything* can potentially make or break a fight, but that doesn't mean that it will *always* make or break a fight. Casting Stoneskin as a tank is highly situational and, outside of those situations, you're going to be better served by just dumping more damage on the target.

It's for this exact reason that I'm ambivalent about Stoneskin for PLDs: using it is either indicative of a PLD screwing up or a PLD playing as well as possible and, most of the time, if Stoneskin is a legitimate option, there's a fine line between those two potential outcomes.

[bokchoykn]

Maybe being picky on the details but...

It's a pretty dick move to remove the context of my post (ie. the 90% of it that you omitted) to accuse me of using blanket statements, especially where I clearly stated there were exceptions and later gave an example that you yourself used to support your claim.

[Traek]

It's a pretty dick move to remove the context of my post (ie. the 90% of it that you omitted) to accuse me of using blanket statements, especially where I clearly stated there were exceptions and later gave an example that you yourself used to support your claim.

Your context makes no difference in what you are conveying. I only culled it to reduce the clutter of text. You were agreeing with ZDamned, who is on quite the extreme side, but later mentioned the T7 example (after your blanket statement). Perhaps I'm wrongly lumping you in too far with ZDamned, but again, to say Stone Skin is unimportant when it can easily prevent wipes or extreme stress on the raid is a stretch.