Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[ArcFinix]

Except they will likely never be the best weapon. And he's also likely correct, they will make previous steps "easier" at some point.

and which source did u get both comment from? unless it is an official source, any speculation or rumor are just theory crafted explanation.

[ArcFinix]

It seems like 2.25 fixing the issue on Mirror for PLD and WHM but no words on ATMA. they are reading but they are avoiding the issue.. this just go from bad to worst

[waldo]

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

[Deathscythe343]

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

I believe the answer to both is no.

Gonna post this here in this thread. It is a comment someone made in another thread on the same issue. I think it illustrates the problem that people have with this system.

People just hate FATEs. It wouldn't be such an issue for a lot of people if FATEs were actually fun. (If you ever played GW2 - their open world events were actually pretty interesting).
I don't think there is an issue with the weapon tiers. Nor do I think the "atma" part of the questline (FATE grinding) shouldn't involve some time commitment - however it's the type of time commitment a lot of people have a problem with.

The biggest issue I have with the atma system is simply that it is solely based on RNG. You can have one person farming one atma for 5 minutes and another farming for 5 hours. On top of that, there is no progression if you didn't get it from the previous FATE. You can be farming for 5 hours and be in no better position then you were when you started. Is it fair for the person who farmed for 5 hours? Not at all. Is his weapon any more special then the "lucky" soul who walked into the zone and got it off the first FATE? Again, nope.. That is the biggest issue in my opinion. The grind is not a very fair one.

There is good RNG and bad RNG.
Good RNG (from a player perspective) is something like how the coil or primal drops work. At least one person is guaranteed a reward at the end of the duty. It may not be the item any of you want - but SOMETHING is guaranteed.
Bad RNG is something like the current atma system - you either get it or you don't. There is also no way to increase those odds by something you do as a player, so one person can be extremely lucky, and another extremely unlucky.

The first handful of people on the server that were walking around with atmas weren't praised because they beat content, they were simply thought of as being "lucky".

This isn't really an ideal way to gate content from a player's perspective. Have us run through 12 different dungeons solo, and beat some boss at the end..
Or reverse the order (make that the Atma > Animus path), and have the current book system the way people obtain Atmas. (Yes including the myth grind).

In fact, although the Animus takes a lot of myth to get, and an hour or so running around filling out a book on 9 different occasions, it is actually a much nicer path - as there is no RNG element.

So basically what I am saying is I personally don't have an issue with the weapon tiers (even though the Animus takes more time then most), the issue I have is purely the RNG element of obtaining your Atma weapon.

[Remus]

So, I haven't the time to read through 120 pages of post. I'll ask the community a question.
Part 1, has a dev responded to this?
Part 2, what page was the response on (if there was one)?

Thanks in advance

They have responded on this thread but only to say that they will use this thread for feedback. Sadly i can not remember which page it was.

[ArcFinix]

They have responded on this thread but only to say that they will use this thread for feedback. Sadly i can not remember which page it was.

nope they have never responded to this thread. they only combine the thread from multiple thread and tell us so.. i don't think that is considered as a reply.

[ArcFinix]

I believe the answer to both is no.

Gonna post this here in this thread. It is a comment someone made in another thread on the same issue. I think it illustrates the problem that people have with this system.

your quote from altena is the key point of this thread.. altho not everyone hate FATES, its the RNG issue. some people take diablo 3 as comparison.. but what they don't realized is D3 is working toward controllable RNG.. Kadala (let u gamble) for a specific piece of gear with chance of legendary, enchanting allow u to gamble for a specific stats on the gear and crafting allow you to gamble for a good legendary.. all of such are controlled or regulated RNG.. which are all good RNG just like coil drop of 100% with chance. However fate is all or nothing.. hell it is 1/12 or nothing. no control no increase no progression nothing at all.

[Worm]

It's amazing to see someone use the phrase 'controlled RNG' so brazenly. I honestly was kind of happy to see a grind like this in a modern game, it was nostalgic. Though after reading all these forum posts I have to recant. Apparently what I enjoy is causing way too much pain and heart break. It's like I'm some kind of monster who can only get nourishment from poison and then some kids see me do it, eat the poison, and they die. Except the poison is just normal food and the kids dying are people flailing on an MMO forum.


EDIT: I don't really know what to say to people, I did about 700 FATEs (based on achievement numbers, not quite accurate) and got all 12. I had pretty big dry spells inside that grind. Though listening to people say "there's good RNG like how loot ALWAYS drops in coil" just blows my mind. That RNG can be just as frustrating as Atma, I remember waiting months for my shield in ICC. I just don't understand how you guys are so defeated by the lack of a little progress meter. If someone gave you free lottery tickets that had a 1% chance to win how many would you scratch off? You'd reach some kind of utilitarian curve where you have to evaluate the Jackpot versus your time spent scratching, but if it passes the test for the value of your time, then you'd certainly do it.

I mean you just look at the variety of people 'giving up' you have people calling it after 100 FATEs and others claiming they've been farming 3 weeks (straight through Easter I'm sure) the only issue here is how used players have gotten with taking themselves hostage to avoid adversity or resistance from a game. The only solution is to get the grind nerfed. Also yes it will be a nerf, since a linear grind is usually easier than a linear one. Yeah there will be those outliers who get everything done in 5 hours, but I feel like enough of your complaints are hinged on you being angry over people having an easier time at Atma than you.

[waldo]

Wouldn't it have been so cool if the fates were tiered, kinda like highbridge prelude, so on. Except stages that are 10 tiers long!
That'd be open world content with rewards people could use (atma given on last battle), the next tier wouldn't start unless the previous one was completed... Maybe even toss in a stipulation you'd have to get gold rating in the prior tier to join the next one.

That's the kind of fate I could get into!

[Ranzan]

I am at my wits end when it comes to Atma. Been trying since 2.2 came out and I STILL DON'T HAVE A SINGLE ATMA to show for it. I haven't done dallies, almost didn't cap my sol tomes twice and barely done much. Over 3 weeks and I'm still at square 1. Please tell how is this a grind? A grind I though had progression for your efforts? This is giving me nothing but rage.

Maybe Yoshi-P hates me or maybe SE hates me for not buying their LIghtning sequels and this is punishment who knows..

This is only getting worse because of the rising ilvl requirements in party finder groups and then people will expect you to have it then I wont be able to do content because they think since I didn't upgrade my weapon I want a carry. /rant