Paladins need to actually be Paladins.

[Gramul]

I agree. There should be only 12 of us at a time. Fully committed to the Sultans orders. We need to slay every infidel in the Sultana including dabblers in Conjury and Arcantism.

[silentwindfr]

@Mcshiggs: well, recall me the jobs of scholar and the jobs of paladin?
We are tank, the skill we gonna use, will help us into this jobs

- where cast protect make us better at tank? Scholar don't have ton of cross skill at take and seriously a scholar too lazy for cast protect is meh! it's him jobs as healer/buffer.
- where cast cure that heal us for 280-300 under CD, make us a better tank? (just as note, Storm path heal almost as strong... and reduce damage deal by the target of 10%, can't be interrupted and be used in him combo)
- where Raise is usefull in our jobs? it's something you do outside fight... cost half of our mana...
- Where stoneskin can be used and make it really reliable? if you are in team and really need Stoneskin, that your healer jobs to put it on you. we can argue that scholar have the same, but the white mage is 18% in comparaison of our. other point, while you cast this, you can be interupted, you can't move and more important! you don't generate any threat.
finally, stoneskin from the paladin, will give use a shield of 450-700 hp, most of boss hit for around 1000.... indeed it save some damage, but you just did burn 300+ mp on your 1400 for that... do it worth it? no. save it for flash will be more usefull.

the role of a tank, is endure the damage of the enemy and keep the enemy on him. none of the crosskill from the conjurer help in this jobs.

in the V1 our healing was increase, even in the early beta we was able to use healing quite nicely, it was not at the same level than a healer but was decent... there is a joke! barely worth the fact to put it in your bar, your chocobo, heal more than you... and i'm not talking of a chocobo level 10, nop.. even with just the choco healing, it will heal you for 350+...

[Zumi]

What I don't like about Paladin is the Conjurer cross class skills, the only thing that is semi useful is stoneskin. I am looking at party and raid situations.

Only useful ability
Stoneskin - can mitigate 700+ damage depending on hp, really only useable when the boss isn't hittable or when you are not tanking can cast it on the other tank.

Useless abilities.
Cure - at level 50 only heals for 220 hp which is about 2% of your total hp and has a long cast time, fairly useless.
Raise - Can not be used in combat, setting this basically not having an abilitiy at all so useless.
Protect - You will always have a whm or sch to cast this in any party or raid, so once again useless.

[Anapingofness]

I'm Ok with Paladin not having religious overtones. I don't think I'm the only one that doesn't associate Paladin with 'Holy Knight of Righteousness' bla bla bla...
Granted, if they could fit the religious overtones into the world lore then it'd be something I could get behind.

Personally, I'd like to see White Mages casting "holy" type magic a la FFXI's Dia, Banish, Banishga, etc and Black Mages having control over the elements. Maybe then Blm would feel more like a Blm instead of a one trick pony. Mind you, I still think that they should have only as many spells as they could effectively use so that there isn't a bunch of spells just sitting there....
Although with the GDC .... the elements thing becomes problematic. -_-;

I agree. There should be only 12 of us at a time. Fully committed to the Sultans orders. We need to slay every infidel in the Sultana including dabblers in Conjury and Arcantism.

^ this made me giggle XDD

[Mcshiggs]

@Mcshiggs: well, recall me the jobs of scholar and the jobs of paladin?
We are tank, the skill we gonna use, will help us into this jobs
the role of a tank, is endure the damage of the enemy and keep the enemy on him. none of the crosskill from the conjurer help in this jobs.
in the V1 our healing was increase, even in the early beta we was able to use healing quite nicely, it was not at the same level than a healer but was decent... there is a joke! barely worth the fact to put it in your bar, your chocobo, heal more than you... and i'm not talking of a chocobo level 10, nop.. even with just the choco healing, it will heal you for 350+...

First off all your questions you just asked were answered in my previous post, but after reading this you managed to type up I can understand there were probably many words you didn't understand. Sure as a tank your job is to hold threat and take damage, but as part of the group it is your job to do what is needed to help the group succeed, many fights require tank swaps, when you don't have the boss, you can stoneskin the MT. If you are one of those that refuses to go outside of your comfort zone to help the group and just blame someone else, I wouldn't want you tanking for me to begin with. And as to your chocobo example, what if you didn't spec your chocobo into heals, how can it's non existent heal be better than a cure from you? Like I said just because you don't use it all the time, doesn't make it completely useless.

[Alistaire]

Whatever you'd consider adding, you'd absolutely have to consider game balance first. Anything you'd give PLD at this point would just cause the WAR players to go...berserk.

[Enkidoh]

Besides, the level cap is still 50 - there's a ton of abilities from version 1.0 that have not returned, like Red Lotus and Phalanx, (and some abilities had their level requirements lowered, like Rage of Halone), suggesting that SE has these missing abilities reserved for level cap increases in the future, hence meaning healing/'holy' magic skills might return later on. Players just have to be patient, ARR is barely over six months old - it's still young.

Also, like the SMN threads with people begging for FFXI-style avatars to be used with SMN instead of the 'egis' players actually have, players need to get out of the 'FFXI-did-it-this-way-and-I-want-ARR-to-be-the-same!' mindset and remember this is a completely different game with a completely different lore and setting. Eorzean PLDs are not like the Temple Knights of San d'Oria in FFXI - they're just knights who are the royal guard of Ul'dah (the Sultansworn, as several people have already pointed out).

They don't have white magic on their skillset because, a. White Magic is actually a forbidden art in Eorzea (see WHM Job quests), and b. they have no need for it. They are basically just knights, period. Personally I'm starting to wish SE just used the Japanese name for the Job (literally, 'Knight') instead of PLD as it wouldn't have resulted in this silly arguement.

[Moirear]

I know a lot of fantasy casts "Paladins" as holy-magic type warriors, but in reality, all "Paladin" really means is basically knight. This is congruent with the background story of the Paladins in this game and the job quest series.

That said, requiring CNJ15 and getting CNJ abilities to cross-class from, PLD always feels a bit shafted in this regard. It's a real shame that its magic/curative aspect feels utterly useless. Not going to argue with that...

[ispano]

Except that Paladin isn't exactly an abstract concept. A paladin is a warrior, who through faith gained the use of white magic. This is the concept of Paladin no matter what source you use, and it's based on the definition dating back to Charlemagne's court of religious warriors. We interpret that in fantasy games as being warriors of *good*, which in Final Fantasy means white magic. This is actually very specific, and it would be very nice of Paladins would continue to be strong warriors that use their few (but moderately powerful) divine spells intelligently.

Except no, white magic has nothing to do with it. That's just something some games have given them. A Paladin is simply this: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paladin and if you actually read about Charlemagne's court, there is no mention of magic at all.

[Mcshiggs]

Personally I'm starting to wish SE just used the Japanese name for the Job (literally, 'Knight') instead of PLD as it wouldn't have resulted in this silly arguement.

If they did this, then the people that are complaining about how XIV did paladin would just have been complaining that Knight should have been paladin since it uses a sword and shield, can cross class white magic spells from conjurer and gets paladin abilities from previous Final Fantasies like cover and hallowed ground.