Paladins need to actually be Paladins.

[Jinko]

1.0's Paladin felt more like a Paladin, but they also kind of ruined BLM as well so meh.

When they redefined the battle system they should have made the armoury system work off soulstones instead of weapons, it would have solved a lot of issues with forcing base skills on the jobs and opened up the jobs to more than 1 weapon.

When they start adding secondary jobs to the existing classes they are going to have a hard time making them unique to the base class, which is what PLD is currently suffering from.

[Airal]

It's true that Paladin in its origin is basically just a fancy word for Knight, but within the series they've rarely deviated from a structure so wildly. They literally have no access to combat ready magics whereas every other iteration of the Paladin job/class has used it as an integral part of their kit that distinguished them from just being a dude in armor with a sword. The only thing that really stands out to define Paladin in FFXIV is Hallowed Ground, which is calling back to the generally accepted faith mechanic of the standard fantasy Paladin.

They've proven they can do Summoner several different ways while keeping the core mechanics (the summons) in tact. I see no reason that Paladin for this game in particular had to be so different.

[Viridiana]

They literally have no access to combat ready magics whereas every other iteration of the Paladin job/class has used it as an integral part of their kit that distinguished them from just being a dude in armor with a sword.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/P...es_of_Light%29

Cover, Provoke, Counter, and Holmgang, basically. >_>

[Airal]

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/P...es_of_Light%29

Cover, Provoke, Counter, and Holmgang, basically. >_>

Pretty much how a tank works, and Paladins have been a tank class for as long as I can remember in fantasy. Not that FFXIV does that specific part any differently. I don't think that's really the point of this thread though.

Like traditional Paladins, they focus on defending themselves and their allies and have decent defensive magic capabilities.

They still have access to magic in a weaker form, though in that game every class does. It's just a matter of whether or not they use it well (and Paladin in that game can use it in a semi-useful fashion). The main gripe here seems to just be that Paladins should have something that isn't just them slapping stuff with a sword to differentiate them from their base class. I realize SE had to make a choice and chose to push out the magic aspect during the job quest line and attempted to keep it in via cross-class.

[HakuroDK]

If I may, Paladins can still borrow Cross-Class skills from Conjurers. Therefore, they have access to spells like Cure, Protect, Stoneskin, and Raise.

That's pretty much a Paladin's skillset. If you want a Paladin to know some White Magic, I see no better alternative than to invest some Cross-Class slots into some conjurer abilities. That would effectively make them as good at magic as most paladins in the game have been in the past.

And to be honest, if you gave Esuna to a Paladin, you'd need to find some way to give a similar debuff removal to Warriors if you don't want to unbalance the two completely.

Warriors get Enrage, true, but have you ever seen a Warrior or a Marauder skill that uses MP? I'm not referring to cross-class abilities like Flash either, like actual abilities a Warrior or Marauder can learn that requires MP? You couldn't have, because it doesn't exist. Warriors get Enrage, and Paladins focus more on the magical aspect of things, and so Paladins have MP to work with. Not only that, but they have sword combos that restore MP.

In short, Paladins already are Paladins. They're just not the perfect Tank-Healer hybrid like you want them to be.

[Mcshiggs]

Keep in mind the level cap will raise, they only had 5 job skills for level 50, and with paladin being a tank, it made sense to put in the tank abilities first, and giving the healing/faith stuff people are complaining about makes no sense to give it to gladiator. Also in this thread people are saying that in other games, even if they don't use it much, or it isn't very good, paladins still have access to magic, well in XIV you can get cure, raise, stoneskin, and protect through cross class skills. And last XIV paladin is different in many ways because, get ready for it, this is a different game, read the description for paladin they give http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/game/#!/jobs you could have read about their paladin before you ever played it, and not have been let down because it wasn't a copy/paste of XI's version. In XIV's description it says nothing of magic, it is all about swords shields and defense to stand between enemies and the rest of the party.

This is also how the armory system is supposed to work, once you equip that job stone, you get better at performing your given role in a party, and as a paladin that is tanking, white mages and scholars get better at healing. In the 1.0 they didn't have the trait given to healers that let them raise during battle, anyone with raise could do it, and this lead to parties stacking classes, not jobs when new stuff like Ifrit came out, so everyone in your party could raise, meaning thaumaturges and lancers were taken over black mages and dragoons for group content, which goes against the jobs are better for groups concept of the armory system.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Snip

I think some people are wanting to have a WoW Paladin here, but you must admit that cure is lame and not being able to resurrect during a battle, is lame as well.

[HakuroDK]

I think some people are wanting to have a WoW Paladin here, but you must admit that cure is lame and not being able to resurrect during a battle, is lame as well.

Compare Cecil's cure in FFIV with Rosa's cure. It's literally the same differential because Paladins don't have nearly as good of a Mind stat as White Mages do.

As for Raise, it's available to every pre-Job class as well as Black Mages. Considering no class in the game grants passive bonuses to cross-class abilities specifically, if Raise always worked in battle, Black Mages would not only be decently impressive ranged DPS, but they would also be on revival duty, allowing White Mages to heal all day long without having to sacrifice time to revive party members when the Black Mages can just do it themselves. That would drop game difficulty like a stone.

Honestly, look at the magical aptitude a Paladin has in FFXIV compared to the magical aptitude of a White Mage. Compare it to Cecil's magical aptitude vs. Rosa's magical aptitude in FFIV. It's pretty much the same difference. White Mages are far superior magic users than Paladins. That's how it has always been.

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Snip

And I agree. By no means I want the paladin to have a superior power than WHM when it comes to heal or buff the party. But you have the SMN, for example, that is able to resurrect people during a battle (+ swiftcast). Why the SMN and not the PLD? Cecil had raise, but the mechanics in that game are different than here. You were able to resurrect people the same way than Rosa or whoever able to do so. Cecil had Esuna. A high reliable skill being able to remove debuff from your party members. Cure has NO use at all. Its heal potency is really inferior, so I prefer to have its potency increased but add a CD or somethingfor the sake of balance. The overall SELF-DEFENSIVE skills are fine, really, there's nothing there to complain about.

So, reading the thread and noticing that SE thinks the PLD is a Knight, I think there're some flaws there. When it comes to defend others, "cover" gets short. Sure, they increased its range, but its CD is long, its duration is short as well. For example, in Ragnarok Online you had a skill called "Devotion". It helped you to cover multiple target until you reach 25% of your HP, then the skill is turned off. I would love to have a more reliable "cover" skill here.

[Susanoh]

Compare Cecil's cure in FFIV with Rosa's cure. It's literally the same differential because Paladins don't have nearly as good of a Mind stat as White Mages do.

I just loaded up FFIV because that sounded completely off to me, and it is. In a level 40ish party, my Cecil cure 1 was doing roughly 2/3-3/4 of Rosa's cure 1. In FFXIV, paladin cure 1 is absolutely abysmal compared to a white mage's.