It's official Parsers are illegal in FFXIV

[raelgun]

snip.

your looking at the very extreme end of things here, either you insult someone or you 'help' them, this isnt what a lot of people are saying here, a lot of people saying is, if you are in a group, and you can see someone isnt pulling high enough numbers to down a fight and the other ones are just doing enough to be above the threshold needed, and you help the said struggling person, but what happens if they dont improve still, do you still try and hope that the others will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat and compensate for the lack of damage when they are at their limits already, what would you do here, keep hitting a wall or ask the person to leave and find someone that can do the numbers.
this scenario is the most common you will find in fairness, asking them to leave and be replaced isnt harassment, this should be acceptable, people shouldnt be put in a situation of hitting a wall or GIVE UP ENTIRELY and no one gets a kill by the end of it, there has to be something in the middle here, and requesting the person that cant improve to leave should be one of them.

[Meleoffs]

Pretty sure it would take less than 5 minutes to quickly explain to someone what they should be doing, and a farming group (from my experience) hardly ever needs optimal rotation usage.

That's kind of sounding like a poor excuse to use a parser as an abusive tool. I want to believe that's not the case, but that's just how it's coming out to me, personally.

In a perfect world, this'll be true. However, most people don't like being told they're doing it wrong and will resist the advice and become combative.

[Skull_Angel]

Do the math by hand if your so determined. You can do it. There's a log stating how much damage you did. Give yourself a set time to determine your dps/dpm.

I use to theorycraft for my linkshell in ffxi before parsers were knowingly available, so I did it all by hand; let me tell you, I had several 2" binders full of numbers taken from a PS2 log and equations they plugged into. I was still young enough then to be able to devote time to doing such and didn't much mind doing so to help friends, but having a program to log and compile all of that information would have shaved hours upon hours off of the process as I could take the compiled data and plug it into formulas and be done with it within minutes rather than half a day or so.

Telling someone to do all of this by hand is ridiculous when there are programs available to collect the data for them. If the game's theorycrafting community had the same attitude no one would know; accuracy caps, optimal rotations, optimal cooldown timing, true value of primary stats, when secondary stats become more valuable then primary stats and which secondary stats are of highest value to which class and when.

[Diadumenos]

I use to theorycraft for my linkshell in ffxi before parsers were knowingly available, so I did it all by hand...Yadda yadda...1k char limit... didn't much mind doing so to help friends, but having a program to log and compile all of that information would have shaved hours upon hours off of the process as I could take the compiled data and plug it into formulas and be done with it within minutes rather than half a day or so.

Yadda yadda yadda.

Which brings us back to an interesting question. The info the game displays are the numbers a parser uses, right? So the parser is just reiterating something FFXIV already tells us?

Im still missing why there is such a love/hate relationship with these things. Maybe its because Ive never met anyone (in ffxiv anyway.) that openly admits to using one I guess. =/

[ForteXX]

Which brings us back to an interesting question. The info the game displays are the numbers a parser uses, right? So the parser is just reiterating something FFXIV already tells us?

Im still missing why there is such a love/hate relationship with these things. Maybe its because Ive never met anyone (in ffxiv anyway.) that openly admits to using one I guess. =/

Depends on the parser, FFXIV-APP actually looks at the memory for quite a bit, if not all of its info.

[ItzKris]

Which brings us back to an interesting question. The info the game displays are the numbers a parser uses, right? So the parser is just reiterating something FFXIV already tells us?

Im still missing why there is such a love/hate relationship with these things. Maybe its because Ive never met anyone (in ffxiv anyway.) that openly admits to using one I guess. =/

Exactly my point. Everything given by parsers can be determined by hand. In other games (without parsers) I used to theory craft as well, but instead of by paper I would use Excell. You just imput the formulas into squares and using the functions of the spreadsheet you can find the damage done in given time. Time the damage done in 60 seconds for dpm and divide that by 60 for the dps.

[raelgun]

exactly the point, they said on there, something cant be done in the game, the numbers are already in the game, its public info, we arent introducing something thats not native to the game into the client in anyway, its simply displaying the battle log in a human friendlier perspective, which is what a parser is bottom line.
the devs can not think that this is the case, reading info to be displayed in another format isnt causing any harm to the client, and one very important thing, they shouldnt intervene with how players interact like this. they should just focus on developing the game, not this, if they want to develop damage checks in the game, then this is how you check for it, if they want parsers to be truly dead, then they need to kill off every damage check in the game.

[Gormogon]

how can you PROVE this

This isn't my 1st MMO, nor is this my first time seeing a job designed the way monks are.

You can call it speculation all you want but I already said why it is. You want evidence? How about you start number crunching and tell me where I'm wrong.

exactly the point, they said on there, something cant be done in the game, the numbers are already in the game, its public info, we arent introducing something thats not native to the game into the client in anyway, its simply displaying the battle log in a human friendlier perspective, which is what a parser is bottom line.
the devs can not think that this is the case, reading info to be displayed in another format isnt causing any harm to the client, and one very important thing, they shouldnt intervene with how players interact like this. they should just focus on developing the game, not this, if they want to develop damage checks in the game, then this is how you check for it, if they want parsers to be truly dead, then they need to kill off every damage check in the game.

Already been explained that the parsers aren't the issues but the way they are being used to create a toxic environment. That is a concern. How can you expect Square-Enix to trust the players with mods when the outcome leads to elitism?

[raelgun]

its your method, its your theory, your the one with the thought behind it, only you have the way you think it works, and its you that needs to prove it, this isnt my first mmo as well not for the half the people here.

elitism will never go away, its in every game, its always there, it cant be eliminated, no matter what is used as the material, even full on policing wont eliminate it, its a player base issue, and will always be, what your asking for is dictatorship.

[Skull_Angel]

This isn't my 1st MMO, nor is this my first time seeing a job designed the way monks are.

You can call it speculation all you want but I already said why it is. You want evidence? How about you start number crunching and tell me where I'm wrong.

How do you know how much accuracy is required for any given instance? Is the TP cost of a certain move worth it's potential damage output, and within what time frame(s) is it viable or not? Which ability rotation grants higher output and in what instance?

Most can be answered by compiling the log data, but it requires additional time (the amount of which varying with desired answer). There are many cases where one instance appears to be optimal, but another has a greater effect; theorycrafters know this and strive seek answers, even if the differences are miniscule. Parsing programs make data collection quick and simple; asking people to do it by hand is like telling someone to SMD solder pieces to a PCB with a soldering iron, sure it's possible, but it's time consuming and there's room for error which leads to there being more time spent.