Echo Buff and Duty Roulette (Trials)

[kukurumei]

On top of helping less experienced players get through content it seems to give the more experienced players the incentive to help the less experienced ones. Knowing that after a few wipes you can just carry the party is good incentive to stick around.

There is learning a fight, and learning a fight.

Various mechanics are set to punish instead of to teach. Not being able to meet a dps check or instant deaths make learning curve much harder then it should be. Some fights have to be near perfect, and echo helps that near perfect down to, doable.

Not stacking in a titan EX will 1hit KO anyone even with echo. But just a little slow and getting love tapped for 90% HP, means a death to the follow up stomp. With echo, they will not die to the follow up stomp, same with weakness. You can not survive a gero crush weakened, but with enough echo, you can.

Getting double tapped is a signature mechanic in EXs. But echo makes a double tap livable, and thus much easier to learn the fight. Being able to see all the phases is very important, even if you don't win.

#2: It also helps make Parties faster. Finding 2 tanks and 2 healers that have experienced in EX is like pulling teeth, but with echo, you can have part time tanks and healers that sub in doable. "Hey I know the fight but I've never done it on XyZ job" is generally a fail in 2.0 and 2.1 Not in 2.2

[givemeraptors]

It sounds to me like the echo buff is only really helping the experienced players. The new players are getting carried, and aren't learning very much, because they don't have to. I know it could possibly be counterproductive to the point of the echo. But maybe they should consider a system where you don't win the fight unless your alive or at least don't get credit? That way new people have to survive/learn something, while the experienced people can still go along there merry way.

It sounds like that, but with experienced people deciding to stick around for a few wipes, the newbies get much more practice than an abandoned run because the tank and healer dropped. People improve noticeably within 20-30 minutes. First time the newbies died before we got to heart, second time it was during heart, third time they died post-heart. That's a heck of a lot of improvement, and even though ultimately they were "carried", they are better players now than before (if not as good as a Titan HM clear would/should indicate).

[Synapse]

On the side note, can someone say what are the requirement for Duty Roulette trials? I still see it locked.

I finished stories mission, finished Leviathan... finished all new dungeons...

what the heck am i missing?

[Timethiuas]

On the side note, can someone say what are the requirement for Duty Roulette trials? I still see it locked.

I finished stories mission, finished Leviathan... finished all new dungeons...

what the heck am i missing?

Did you do the Bridge Quest with Gilgamesh?

[Clavaat]

btw, does the Echo buff apply to the extremes as well?

Yes, but not a heavily. Instead of increasing by stacks of 10% (max 50%) it stacks in increments of 5% (max 25%).

[BloodPact]

btw, does the Echo buff apply to the extremes as well?

The older extremes do give the buff, though the buff received is not as substantial as the one you get for lower tier content. I think Hard Modes gave about a 50% buff and the Extreme Modes give 25%. Something like that. The new trails and raid (Leviathan Hard and Extreme, Thornmarch Extreme and The Second Coil of Bahamut) don't apply, for obvious reasons.

[Rbstr]

I'm a fan of it and think it was a good idea. Especially in the HM roulette trials where you've rouletted and the experienced ones can simply put on some sunglasses and deal with it after a couple wipes.
In the EX trials is certainly doesn't replace learning the fight. Titan remains all about the dodging. Buffs don't help if you fall off a platform. Apparently echo can drive Titan EX's phases too quickly and fubar a run.

So you may help some bads get through the content. The fact remains they'll still get stuck at "current" content and won't get through maintaining one's feelings of superiority. Or they are good and were just stuck with crap parties and now you've got a new potential static member. Yay.

[NyneAlexander]

Yea my only real beef with it is it screws up the timings of everything that we're used to. Phases get pushed in a weird way that causes things like jails happening during a jump phase. Or you accidentally cause Ifrit to push past 5% and wipe the party during nails. It also creates a false reality where people think that they're ready for Leviathan ex because they finally beat old primals.

[Synapse]

Did you do the Bridge Quest with Gilgamesh?

/facepalm....

Thanks... i forgot about that. Never thought Hildbrande story line would merge with DF.

[SamuraiBlaze]

During roulette just like the op we wiped to the 30% buff. On our last try we were down to me, the 2 tanks and 1 healer. The healer lagged and got hit by a landslide followed by the MT. The OT who was new picked him up and lasted long enough to for me to LB. Thumbs up for me also for my 2nd relic and the epic story.