Is this your first Final Fantasy? Or do you just not remember grinding in past games?

[Zwipe]

RNG or not.

A grind is still a grind.

THIS^^

RNG and 'grind' go hand in hand.

[Fawkes]

I always used a gameshark for a double/triple exp or something in the old games to lessen grinds.

[Sunarie]

I find it rather funny that all the folks scolding people for wanting the Atma portion of the quest changed to be more involving, rewarding, and fun.. seem to be those that had little to no trouble getting their Atma weapon. Perhaps that crowd doesn't want it changed because then they'd have to spend as much time as us lowly unlucky folks instead of getting their weapon ahead of others for no good reason (they essentially got their weapon handed to them by comparison, afterall).

People are not asking to be handed their weapon. A lot of the people complaining about it do enjoy a grind to some extent or another. Most of the people actually like, and look forward to the second part of the quest, which is also a pretty darn long grind. They are not complaining because it's a grind. They are complaining because of one part of the quest, a single portion, is tedious, mindless, and just plain boring for the vast majority of people. A lot of them are going to power through it to get to the "fun" second part.. that doesn't make it a good system. Nor does having other weapons available mean that the system is amazing and shouldn't change because people don't have to do it. The system is for the grinders, the people that wanted a long weapon upgrade process. The people it was aimed at, don't like a part of it. Totally reasonable to voice distaste.

[Jinko]

THIS^^

RNG and 'grind' go hand in hand.

No they don't, having to collect 250 items is a grind, but if the item drops 100% of the time there is zero RNG.

I think some people would prefer this because its something you can work at over days/weeks/months and actually know you are making progress.

[Zwipe]

ps: then don't come here talk of game of another era or not even an mmorpg for make your point! the mmorpg have evolve if you can't accept it!! quit it!

MMORPG's have not evolved, they've been dilluted. They went from 5-course dinner to fast-food to go.

[Zwipe]

No they don't, having to collect 250 items is a grind, but if the item drops 100% of the time there is zero RNG.

Thats farming.

[Jinko]

Thats farming. Grinding is just doing something you don't want to do.

Farming and Grinding are one and the same :\

Think about it.

MMORPG's have not evolved, they've been dilluted. They went from 5-course dinner to fast-food to go.

People like fast food ? interesting.

[Zwipe]

Farming and Grinding are one and the same :\

Think about it.



People like fast food ? interesting.

To an extent, grinding has a more negative connotation tho.

people farm dungeons because its easy and they know they'll get some immediate reward out of it, people grind to level up because its boring and tedious.

[Legionius]

The glorious grind from the last 10-15 years people keep bringing up is cumulative for some people. I've seen a lot of people burn out due to bad luck and/or boredom. Grind has to evolve just like every other aspect of gaming or it starts to drag everything else down with it.

It's really not a hard concept to grasp. An extremely inconsistent grind placed in irrelevant content, for the target audience, that prevents them from advancing in any other meaningful way as they try too get through it sounds like a poor experience. When you can divide or multiply the amount of effort/luck required by a factor of 5 and still not cover everyone, somethings may need to be reexamined.

[Sunarie]

To an extent, grinding has a more negative connotation tho.

people farm dungeons because its easy and they know they'll get some immediate reward out of it, people grind to level up because its boring and tedious.

Grinding and farming are essentially the same thing. They really can be used interchangeably. I would say people grind dungeons, people grind mobs for whatever purpose (leveling or quest items). Grinding is essentially just working towards a goal. The Atma quest most definitely is a grind, as is having to repeatedly go into Coil to obtain a certain piece of gear. Both of those could also be referred to as farming for an item.

You get a reward out of leveling too.. in fact without the reward there really is no grind, as the definition of grind (the dictionary definition, in fact) in this sense is to work towards something.