Review of the current battle system

[allenshu]

I could of liked the current battle system if the classes weren't all just the same thing with different names. The game has so much fail in it that you can't say a single aspect of it is good without it being brought down by something else that was completely moronic to implement in the first place.

The freedom of allowing to set actions across classes doesn't mean you have to set exact same ones. Also, the freedom of using stamina to perform actions doesn't mean you have to keep clicking normal attacks. With these freedoms, players themselves are those who decide to have a great or tedious battle, not the game.

Back to class differentials, even there are still some flaws, I think current class system still make each has it's own specialty. Let's take LNC for example, LNC can be a very great supportive job in a battle. Combining with it's fast-move trait and natural long attack range, LNC can always step to a good position to attack enemies. For one single tough enemy, LNC can focus on reduce and even erase TP to make the enemy have less chance to use big damage actions. Also, attacking from side to break enemy's posture can give chances to interrupt enemy's on-going actions. That not only buys more breath room to your party, also efficaciously waste enemy's stamina and force it to enter more recovery lag. For multiple enemies, LNC's Pierce can earn fast TP for greater damage AE actions, and it's AE stun also very helpful to break multiple damage actions casting from enemies simultaneously. Things above are required LNC's fast movement speed and long attack range to perform efficiently. What happens if you like this style but you just don't like man with a lance? FF14 provides a freedom to allow you to bring the concept to the other jobs. However, if you simply copy same actions and play the same way, you will never perform better than a real LNC. Therefore, why not mix with the other jobs' specialties to create another style? Then a new unique style is created, and that style is belong to you.

Same principles can be applied to all classes. Take ARC for another example. It's longest attack range can give one clear view of on-going battle situation. Therefore, using different supportive magics to either support teammates or enfeeble enemies at crucial moments can create different ARC styles. On the other hand, ARC can stock arrows while sneaking behind an enemy and make one deadly shot from the rear (attack from rear has higher chance making critical attack). Because the nature of ARC is away from battle field, so he has more flexibility to control his own battle rhythm. Holding breath (prepare arrows, stamina, TP) and reload a series of deadly shots at right position and right moment, ARC and close a battle in seconds without let enemies have chance to use big damage actions, like a real sniper.

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be just another OLG for players to chase gears and dmg/exp per hour.

[Physic]

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or the we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be another game for players to chase gears and exp per hour.

which sadly sounds like the plan.

[Zanfire]

The freedom of allowing to set actions across classes doesn't mean you have to set exact same ones. Also, the freedom of using stamina to perform actions doesn't mean you have to keep clicking normal attacks. With these freedoms, players themselves are those who decide to have a great or tedious battle, not the game.

Back to class differentials, even there are still some flaws, I think current class system still make each has it's own specialty. Let's take LNC for example, LNC can be a very great supportive job in a battle. Combining with it's fast-move trait and natural long attack range, LNC can always step to a good position to attack enemies. For one single tough enemy, LNC can focus on reduce and even erase TP to make the enemy have less chance to use big damage actions. Also, attacking from side to break enemy's posture can give chances to interrupt enemy's on-going actions. That not only buys more breath room to your party, also efficaciously waste enemy's stamina and force it to enter more recovery lag. For multiple enemies, LNC's Pierce can earn fast TP for greater damage AE actions, and it's AE stun also very helpful to break multiple damage actions casting from enemies simultaneously. Things above are required LNC's fast movement speed and long attack range to perform efficiently. What happens if you like this style but you just don't like man with a lance? FF14 provides a freedom to allow you to bring the concept to the other jobs. However, if you simply copy same actions and play the same way, you will never perform better than a real LNC. Therefore, why not mix with the other jobs' specialties to create another style? Then a new unique style is created, and that style is belong to you.

Same principles can be applied to all classes. Take ARC for another example. It's longest attack range can give one clear view of on-going battle situation. Therefore, using different supportive magics to either support teammates or enfeeble enemies at crucial moments can create different ARC styles. On the other hand, ARC can stock arrows while sneaking behind an enemy and make one deadly shot from the rear (attack from rear has higher chance making critical attack). Because the nature of ARC is away from battle field, so he has more flexibility to control his own battle rhythm. Holding breath (prepare arrows, stamina, TP) and reload a series of deadly shots at right position and right moment, ARC and close a battle in seconds without let enemies have chance to use big damage actions, like a real sniper.

I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back. In addition, if actions and status are limited with classes/jobs, then it's obvious that your job will be not much different with someone else job. Or we may say the only difference will be if you can spend a lot time in your life to get god gears to make you look a little special than the others. In other words, without the freedoms we have now, FF14 will be just another OLG for players to chase gears and dmg/exp per hour.

What you are saying is what most of us 'thought" the system would be like, heck i think the devs where thinking it too. The truth of it is that half those ideas are plain old ruined by stupid decisions that were put in the game. ex:

LNC was supposed to be this middle range fighter, but the fact that even at its furthest reach, all AoEs (that ive seen) still hit them, heck even if they turn to do an attack they still reach. Then the buff/debuff part, that would be great if battles actually lasted, and the effects were actually worth a damn (same goes for mages debuffs).

Then the ARC...which was ruined right away with the (imo dumbest thing ive seen) giving pretty much every single mob ranged attacks, making the whole "be at a distance" or kite structure (that was one of the points to giving them the speed boost ability i assumed) and throwing that out the window.

Then there is the fact of mixing magic with non-mage classes. Particularly pre-the MP regen, it was almost pointless for most DoW to even bother with. You heals were crap, you couldnt AoE, and the already mostly pointless debuffs were now even more useless. So basically it came down to the solo buffs.

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

[Physic]

What you are saying is what most of us 'thought" the system would be like, heck i think the devs where thinking it too. The truth of it is that half those ideas are plain old ruined by stupid decisions that were put in the game. ex:

LNC was supposed to be this middle range fighter, but the fact that even at its furthest reach, all AoEs (that ive seen) still hit them, heck even if they turn to do an attack they still reach. Then the buff/debuff part, that would be great if battles actually lasted, and the effects were actually worth a damn (same goes for mages debuffs).

Then the ARC...which was ruined right away with the (imo dumbest thing ive seen) giving pretty much every single mob ranged attacks, making the whole "be at a distance" or kite structure (that was one of the points to giving them the speed boost ability i assumed) and throwing that out the window.

Then there is the fact of mixing magic with non-mage classes. Particularly pre-the MP regen, it was almost pointless for most DoW to even bother with. You heals were crap, you couldnt AoE, and the already mostly pointless debuffs were now even more useless. So basically it came down to the solo buffs.

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

lancer does work out of the range of many aoe. in the stamina system you can also move without losing dps, and lancer moves less than other classes to get out of aoe range.

It was really a playstyle thing and many people didnt take advantage because the system didnt force you, and they definitely never showed people how to take advantage of various things.

[allenshu]

lancer does work out of the range of many aoe. in the stamina system you can also move without losing dps, and lancer moves less than other classes to get out of aoe range.

It was really a playstyle thing and many people didnt take advantage because the system didnt force you, and they definitely never showed people how to take advantage of various things.

Agree.

There are many options/styles for one lancer to deal with incoming aoe.
1. Use Twisting Vice to erase the target's tp then aoe won't go (combine with Hawk's Eye for better chance hit).
2. Use Leg Sweep (for ground enemies) to stun targets then aoe won't go (combine with Hawk's Eye for better chance hit).
3. Use pierce type actions to attack the target from side to earn chance to interrupt the incoming action (seems greater damage gives better chance to interrupt, so can try combine attack-up buff).
4. Use Diversion for one 100% evade (following by casting cure on tank to guarantee his survive, or using Moonrise afterward to slow next possible incoming aoe).

For all these options, main actions are belong to lancer and some in () are from the other classes to make him perform better. If we can include other classes' actions as main move and then combine with the other different ones, then there are even more options/styles to go. Furthermore, in general, by knowing the fact that most enemies will enter action-mode after HP less than 50% and being able to read enemy's attack rhythm change, there are even more options to do to prevent a big damage aoe landing (ex. drain TP or use Paralyze around target 50% HP). Of course, running away is also a style

PS. This reminds me seeing some players complain that Paralyze is broken because it doesn't last long and has long CD. I think these complaints simply tell they don't know how to use the spell right in FF14...

[allenshu]

In theory the class system was fantastic, in reality it was destroyed by tons of little missteps that added up to making most cool ideas null and void. For you to say "I think most of these will be gone when auto-attack system is back" i say...Were they really there in the first place?

It's not in theory... it's how I play the game.

What ruined the game most is SP and party system, and of course, plus the incomplete world. Fighting tough enemies with less people doesn't provide efficient sp gain, and also, those players who don't really know how to bring skills into full play got knocked out easily in such situations. Accordingly, players go adjust difficulty of a leve or simply have more people to conveniently win a battle in a short time, and then they come back to complain the battle system is boring. This actually save SE a lot cost/energy to perform their "improving" plan. Adjusting SP gain and party system based on our current battle mechanics is much harder than simply replacing with old one (auto-attack), not to mention creating new enemies and even areas to let players discover how they can play their classes well.

[Zanfire]

It's not in theory... it's how I play the game.

What ruined the game most is SP and party system, and of course, plus the incomplete world. Fighting tough enemies with less people doesn't provide efficient sp gain, and also, those players who don't really know how to bring skills into full play got knocked out easily in such situations. Accordingly, players go adjust difficulty of a leve or simply have more people to conveniently win a battle in a short time, and then they come back to complain the battle system is boring. This actually save SE a lot cost/energy to perform their "improving" plan. Adjusting SP gain and party system based on our current battle mechanics is much harder than simply replacing with old one (auto-attack), not to mention creating new enemies and even areas to let players discover how they can play their classes well.

It doesn't matter HOW you play, the fact is they screwed up things that made some of the great ideas either not worth it or have no use. There was a lot more wrong then just SP and party, though they did factor in for sure. Just look at some of the examples i gave, they arent really wrong, but if you wanted to the illusion that some of it worked...well when playing by yourself its all fine, but it does not disregard that fact that things were not implemented well.

[allenshu]

It doesn't matter HOW you play, the fact is they screwed up things that made some of the great ideas either not worth it or have no use. There was a lot more wrong then just SP and party, though they did factor in for sure. Just look at some of the examples i gave, they arent really wrong, but if you wanted to the illusion that some of it worked...well when playing by yourself its all fine, but it does not disregard that fact that things were not implemented well.

It matters when someone said it's just a "thought" or only "in theory"...

The title of this thread was named as "review", means I don't attempt to make any change to SE's current plan or challenge "the majority". Just at the moment right before our current battle system disappears, maybe we can look back and ask ourselves if we really know this battle system well enough.

Once, our current battle system was one valuable treasure of FF14 and a proud of Tanaka-P to present to all FF players. Why all the sudden, SE decided to take it out so easily without at least trying to explain why it was there in the beginning? It's really because they want to improve and bring a great game to be worthy of the FF title. Or, it's simply because it's the most cheap and quick way to earn short-term advantages, and ironically, that's the same reason why FF14 was released before it was ready.