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  1. #111
    Player
    Shug's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    Gridania
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    326
    Character
    Mimmoki Moki
    World
    Brynhildr
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    Dark Knight Lv 80
    I've played several F2P games. Not one of them was really free. They all turned into P2W games. If this one goes F2P, I'm out as well.
    (6)

  2. #112
    Player
    silentwindfr's Avatar
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    Jul 2012
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    Gridania
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    4,116
    Character
    Florence Leduc
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    i remember Yoshida saying that make a game P2P go in F2P you need to make it in the making and that why most of the game have trouble. i will find the interview.

    There are many different types of MMOs. There are two big types or groups that we see. You have one group with games like your Rift or your Star Wars, which are very large-scale MMOs with established IP. Then you have your smaller MMOs, which are maybe new IPs that don’t need as big a user base to be successful. So we can start off with the big group, the large-scale MMO group, with your Rift, your Star Wars, your Guild Wars, your Age of Conan and The Lord of the Rings. These games all started out on a subscription model, or were planning for a subscription model when they were in development. Then, partway through, they switched to free-to-play.

    Then again, you have games like Rift and Star Wars. Even though people have been saying that yes, there is this change in the market, everything’s moving to free-to-play, they still – up until recently – were developing a system that would be subscription-based. Even though everyone is saying the industry is going free-to-play, they still were developing these huge games with subscriptions in mind. Again, we’re not saying that one is better than the other, that free-to-play is better than subscription or subscription is better than free-to-play. But for a large game on that scale, what’s most important – more important than making a lot of money – is making a stable income, a stable amount of money over a long period of time. And so to develop a large-scale MMO like this, you need to spend a lot of time with a lot of resources and a lot of staff to make this game.

    To do that, you need a lot of money, and to get a lot of money to do that, you usually need investors to invest in your game. Because you’ve spent a lot of money on getting this game ready and borrowed a lot of money from these investors, when you release the game, the investors expect to see returns. If your game gets a lot of users and a lot of subscriptions right away, your investors will be happy and you can pay them. But what happens if you don’t hit that number right away? You have a bunch of staff members waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of investors waiting to get paid. You have a bunch of contents that needs to get made because you have to have updates, but you can’t do it because you don’t have enough money, because you didn’t hit that number you were aiming for. And so what do you have to do? One option to get instant money is free-to-play, or selling these items. To get that money so you can pay off your staff, pay off your investors, and start making new content, switching to free-to-play, selling items, and using that money is one way to do it.

    So why didn’t Rift or EA with Star Wars do this from the beginning? Why didn’t they start with free-to-play? There’s a reason behind that. With free-to-play, because you’re selling these items, you’ll have months where you sell a bunch of stuff and you make a lot of money in that one month. But it’s all about what happens during that month. Next month, the person who maybe bought $100 worth of items in the last month could purchase nothing at all. You don’t know what you’re going to be getting, and because you don’t know what you’re going to be getting, you can’t plan ahead. You don’t know how much money is coming in. If you can’t plan ahead, then you can’t keep staff, because you don’t know if you’ll have enough money to pay the staff next month.

    With a subscription base, if you get maybe 400,000 members, you know that you’re going to have the money from that monthly subscription for the next month. You also know that you’re going to have 400,000 this month, and it’s not going to go down to 200,000 users next month. That type of jump really doesn’t happen with a subscription model. So you know that you’re going to have a steady income. Because you have a steady income, you can plan ahead further. You can make sure you have staff members to create that new content. By creating new content, you’re making the players happy. If they know this game is going to keep creating new content, they’ll continue to pay their monthly subscription fees. So rather than going for the huge $100-million-a-month hit that you might get with the free-to-play model, having that steady income allows us to provide a better product to the players.

    Now, you have Blizzard and you have Square Enix. We’re the only two companies in the industry, basically, that are making MMOs with our own money. That gives us an advantage, because where other companies have to get money from investors and have to pay that back, we don’t have a lot of time to build slowly and be able to pay that back. Investors want their returns right away. With Square Enix and Blizzard, because we’re putting our own money into it, we don’t have those investors to worry about, and that means we can release something and maybe take a little bit of a hit at the beginning, but as long as we’re increasing the amount of people we have, then we’ll get that money and make the players happy. We’ll get into that cycle I talked about before, where we’re creating good content and have that steady income to keep the cycle going.

    With version 1.0, even though we call it a failure, we still had a user base. During the time that we were developing this game, 2.0, we were able to increase the amount of subscribers threefold as well. Again, it takes time. It takes showing the users that we’re really into this and giving them that new content. But we’re able to see a rise there. That’s what we’re looking for in this. Again, we’re not saying—The market didn’t change. It’s that there are two different types of models. Choosing the model that’s right for your product and being successful with that is what’s important. We believe that the bigger the game, the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model.

    That’s why you see a lot of companies that chose the subscription model, that wanted to do what we were doing, but were forced to free-to-play. They didn’t go to free-to-play by choice, because if that was the case, they would have gone free-to-play at the beginning. They’d develop it for free-to-play, not full subscription, instead of being forced to go free-to-play. We hear a lot of people saying, “Star Wars is free-to-play now, it’s great!” But then you ask them if they’re playing free-to-play Star Wars and they say, “No, not really playing it.” Everyone talks about how great it is that it went free-to-play, but then you ask around and really, there aren’t that many people who are playing it since it’s gone free-to-play. If you spend all that money on a game ,release it, and it’s filled with bugs and you don’t have enough time to do your updates, people will leave. Players need that new content. Not being able to provide it is fatal. If they were able to produce as much content as players wanted, then people would have stayed there. We don’t really believe it’s a problem with the business model. It’s how that’s handled.
    source: http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/17/fi...lay-exclusive/

    i feel strange this change of way like this. too many people want to make the free to play the new model... mostly because it's a scam... it's never free and in way if you want to have acces to the full game at one time you must pay.
    in Europe the politician begin to look at the F2P for act against it since many complain about scam have been filled through the europe, like the parent with a kids that have spend more of 5000 euro in a month. indeed the parent are responsible, but the company are too responsible since they allows people to spend this much money without say anything.

    i feel it's dangerous to go in this way Yoshida, a lot of new player will come, but do they will really make the game live? no i doubt it a lot of player that go on this sort of game change of game really fast.
    (2)
    Last edited by silentwindfr; 03-21-2014 at 03:31 AM.

  3. #113
    Player Adrian74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Islas Canarias, España
    Posts
    762
    Character
    I''''''''l I''''''''l
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 90
    To be honest... Whenever I read in a thread that there are even a little small chance of the game close to become a Pay 2 Win I feel sick and tremble...

    Well, I kind of lost my faith for online games, especially MMORPG time ago, when the P2W genre began to gain the power and the market. I joined this one because seemed to resist the temptation and easy money that the P2W gives you...

    If they ever become P2W, well, it won't be the world end after all, just quit and... Deep in my heart desire that the 95% of the population of the game also quits because such a terrible decision.
    (5)

  4. #114
    Player
    Nero's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    1,671
    Character
    Karon Mephisto
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    For those who would like also a different Translation, which gives a slightly different point of view:

    click

    Personally i find Reinhearts Translations more accurate, since he does not cut out Sentences/words like other Translations do. So may give it a try and read it, to me it does not sound like that Yoshi does want this Game F2P, which would match with the other Interviews he has given about F2P vs P2P.
    (1)

  5. #115
    Player
    LlenCoram's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
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    Character
    Llen Coram
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Nero View Post
    For those who would like also a different Translation, which gives a slightly different point of view:

    click

    Personally i find Reinhearts Translations more accurate, since he does not cut out Sentences/words like other Translations do. So may give it a try and read it, to me it does not sound like that Yoshi does want this Game F2P, which would match with the other Interviews he has given about F2P vs P2P.
    Thank you, this does give a better idea of how things are going. Less fears of F2P now, for me at least.
    (1)

  6. #116
    Player Akiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,377
    Character
    Rhel Eryut
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    If an MMO isn't good enough to maintain subscribers it should shut down and be placed back into development until it's ready to be a premium MMO.
    (4)

  7. #117
    Player
    Talyn's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    18
    Character
    Talyn Zyn
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Addicted View Post
    While it may be exaggeration, these news have left me a bit disheartened. The retainer news are already treading the line on what I'm willing to accept. If worst comes to pass, such as F2P or a full-blown cash shop, I'll simply quit.
    This is also how I feel.
    (1)

  8. #118
    Player
    Slycer's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    4
    Character
    Slycer Ilerion
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    I don't check here frequently but I wanted to make a comment since the seems the P2P/F2P discussion has really blown up based on the translation I posted on BG.

    FYI, my translation was based on the Dengeki Online article while Reinheart's was the Game Watch one. The interview was done live for multiple press outlets at once so the Game Watch guy apparently did a more thorough job of transcription than the Dengeki guy (I didn't check others, but likely there are several other news sites with their own transcriptions as well). I didn't cut parts out from the translation, it's fairly direct from the Dengeki news story. That said, they might each have subtle points that others left out, depending on who was responsible for the write ups. I imagine Famitsu, at least, has their own story as well.

    For what it's worth, the original tone of the interview transcription pretty clearly showed that Yoshida is firmly a believer in monthly subscriptions for a content heavy MMORPG like this, he just doesn't want to close the door on the free to play option in the future if it becomes more viable.
    (1)
    Last edited by Slycer; 03-21-2014 at 04:33 AM.

  9. #119
    Player
    Moheeheeko's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
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    757
    Character
    Asrah Stone
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 66
    This whole thread is a hilarious example of the reading comprehension of your average forum poster.

    Yoshi "while I'm not 100% against free to play, I won't make final fantasy that way unless the players want it"

    Poster "WHAT THE @#$#@, YOSHI IS MAKING THE GAME FREE TO PLAY?! @$$@ THAT GUY!!!!!1!"
    (2)
    Last edited by Moheeheeko; 03-21-2014 at 05:07 AM.

  10. #120
    Player
    namirei's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    31
    Character
    Namirei Varahn
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    How about we all actually hear them say, "hey, we're going f2p now," before we start freaking out and throwing tantrums? There's nothing to gain by speculating. Just enjoy the game in the mean time until we actually hear an official yes or no.
    (1)

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