Titan HM needs a change for those who can't devote all their time to this game.

[RocketUnderwear]

I would like a different way to get a relic completed as well. I'm not saying that hm fights are not worth it/hard/rewarding/or what ever, it just find them dull as hell.

[Zourin]

If a fight is 'scripted' to the point where everyone has to move/act before an event happens, that's not a fight. That's a dance. In fact, there are no fights in this game unless you're experiencing it for the first time.

"fights' are dynamic, messy, unpredictable, and sometimes unfair. Something this game sorely lacks. Fights require experience to hone reactions.

Titan is nothing but a dance with a small margin of error. The better -everyone- knows the dance, the less overall iLvl you need to beat him. This is not an encounter like the lazymode 8-man MQ runs or CT that can suffer freeloaders casually.

In the end, it's time to find yourself an FC that matches your needs and competancy, or is willing to help you get up to speed to their level of competency. Relics may be 'bought', but the more realistic thing that you need to come to terms with is that you need a Company. Not Friends, a Company. You don't get Relics off pugs. If you think you should, you're missing the point of the challenges rewards established for people that AREN'T you.

[bokchoykn]

snip

While I agree that this game's encounters are too scripted and that more random elements would make the game more interesting, your definitions of the words "fight" and "dance" are complete nonsense. I seriously don't know wtf I just read.

[Zourin]

While I agree that this game's encounters are too scripted and that more random elements would make the game more interesting, your definitions of the words "fight" and "dance" are complete nonsense. I seriously don't know wtf I just read.

Move here, wiggle your arms like this, then move here, then move here and do this. Dungeons are only hard when people can't keep step. It's all choreography. Hence, my referring to boss fights in this game as 'dances'. You know what they're going to do, when they're going to do it, and you know what you're expected to do, where and how to move. Sure, no two parties 'dance' the same, but it's all the same idea.

Punch a drunk and I guarantee you that you will not be able to anticipate every step-by-step. Fights don't have 'rotations' or 'phases' or 'tank and spanks'.

TLR:
Fight: No plan survives contact with the enemy. We got a ball-park plan, and we gotta wing the rest as it happens.
Dance: Everyone knows what's going to happen long before it ever happens, and simply repeats the patterns that work.

[Sibyll]

If a fight is 'scripted' to the point where everyone has to move/act before an event happens, that's not a fight. That's a dance. In fact, there are no fights in this game unless you're experiencing it for the first time.

I understand what you are trying to say, but I fail to see why scripted fights are inherently bad and unscripted fights are inherently better. Take Titan for example: for Mountain Buster to work as a mechanic in an unscripted rotation, you'd either need to add an obvious cast bar or a restriction that it always follows a Landslide (or some Skill X) so that you have an indicator to pop a cooldown. Furthermore you'd need to add an internal cooldown to prevent ridiculous RNG. So what is actually being added to the fight in terms of game play or skill by making it unscripted?

How about horrible skill combinations? What do you do when you get the Clock formation for bombs followed by Tumults or Weight of the Land instead of Landslide?

Give me an example of unscripted, or more realistically partially unscripted, fights where the abilities aren't trivialized to prevent RNG from screwing over the run. The reason a lot of the rotations are scripted in this game is because a lot of the abilities will in fact one shot you.

Also, to my knowledge Chimera (all versions) is largely unscripted. I've seen him do Dragon's, or Ram's, Voice with no particular pattern to which he uses. It seems to be largely a 50/50 chance. Same goes for his Breath attacks.

My ideas:

Duty Finder - ilvl65 minimum, 1 tank, 5 dps, 2 heals
Duty Finder - Either lower HP on heart for DF groups OR a removal of an ability in phase 5, even one less landslide or weight of the land (by this I mean one less plume, 2 rather than 3 due to the lack of space) would help on that rotation.


SE for those who do not have the time to devote to the game...how about an alternative to Titan HM? eh? something, even just a few less HP on his heart might help.

The short answer to this is to use Party Finder, find an FC or at the very least find a group of friends and for a static group to learn mechanics with. However, I will elaborate on some other points:

1) His rotation is completely scripted, so even with latency issues there is no reason to die to anything except Tumults. If you are dying to Tumults then your healers need to learn to use Cooldowns.
2) You do not need ilvl 65 to complete this fight, on any role. If the DPS are not making the DPS check on Heart then the DPS are not playing their class properly or the healers are not removing the damage debuff from Gaol. You also don't need 5 DPS to do this fight. If the tank is dying he needs to learn to use cooldowns, or the healers need to learn to heal. If the healers can't keep up with the damage from Tumults, then the healers need to learn to heal.
3) If you think that there is not enough room to avoid Weight of the Land in Titan HM then wait until you get to Titan Extreme.
4) I've acquired my relics through duty finder only, in the minimum item level required to enter the instance. It took less than a week for each, so it's possible to do this in a reasonable amount of time.
5) If you are 100% certain that it is your party, and not you, that is preventing the progression then perhaps try giving advice to the party. You'd be surprised how many people don't know that the fight is scripted. Hell, I've seen people program macros that they spam for Tumults.

Honestly, it doesn't get any easier after Titan HM. It's better for people to follow the gradual learning curve that SE is creating than to nerf content so that bad/lazy players can feel special.

[Zourin]

Humble snip

Scripted fights aren't bad for 'practice', but if you're going to call a fight 'extreme' it shouldn't boil down to the equation "Human Reaction Time + Distance/Movement Speed = Telegraph Time +/- Network Lag"

Or in short, you got X fractions of a second to move out of the way before you get Landslided. That's not difficult, that's a network speed check. (It's also a slight exaggeration of how the 'difficulty' is ramped towards scripted choreography).


An unscripted fight is if Titan EX decides to Gaol three people then Tumult twice (DPS check), or do a landslide between two almost back-to-back Mountain Busters (heal/tank check). Unscripted is not knowing at what % you have your DPS check on his heart, if it happens at all.

Unscripted fights can be difficult and not rely on choreography and network speed as the primary failing point. You rely more on reading telegraphs and responding appropriately, but not knowing which telegraph is going to be next. There aren't any good examples in this game, because everything is so rigidly scripted that there is no unique varation in NPC behavior. There could even be 'hidden' sequences that only rarely appear, such as going nuts with Weight of the Earth, or even aiming a Landslide at the tank (You do have two tanks just in case, right?). A good unscripted fight should try to catch you with your pants down, but not autofail you unless you really aren't prepared to adapt.

No surprise, choreography is the staple of boss fights in general. It's why i'm bored shirtless of 'difficult' fights that are all "learn this choreography routine while wearing this costume or better to continue".

[Sibyll]

Even humbler snip

Thank you for the clarification.

I feel Ifrit HM is another example where this could be employed. Eruption, or any of his skills, really don't need to be so heavily scripted in that fight. I guess they did it that way so that a person could stun eruption without worrying about getting GCD locked, but it's really not required to stun.

I also want to give them (SE) the benefit of the doubt that they may add some more complicated boss fights later on. As an example, many early fights rely on red indicators for avoiding AoEs; however, as you advance into harder content abilities like Slipstream or 100 Tonze Swing on The Eye's Have It lack indicators even though they are completely avoidable. Perhaps they are easing players into mechanics with 100% scripted fights and will start changing things up with Bosses that have skills A, B,C, and D but have no particular in which they do it, or they do it based on parameters such as party composition (skill A is preferred when 3 or more are in melee range).

As an aside, I really wish they did something more with the 2nd tank in Titan HM. I know you don't need a 5th DPS or 3rd Healer to complete the fight, but why bother having a 2nd tank there just to DPS? Maybe a good mechanic would've been that the MT could potentially get Gaoled, so you'd need a 2nd tank to pick up aggro.

[stuscott]

Funny story...last night, did Titan HM with a WAR, a WHM, and 6 BRDs...quite amusing.

[Ddmk]

Asking for content to be nurfed is weak, me and 2 members of my fc did the whole relic quest in 4 hours in darklight gear
If you learn the fight (practice a lot) titan is easy.
I'm fed up of people thinking i75 gear req should mean auto clear!

Although my argument is pointless as titan is being nurfed, now we will have more mediocre players carrying relics IMHO it's v disappointing

[bokchoykn]

Fight vs Dance.

You define "dance" as an encounter that is scripted or choreographed in a predictable pattern. I'd say that's a fair analogy.

However, you consider "dance" and "fight" as things that are mutually exclusive. If something is a dance, it cannot be a fight, and vice-versa. That is the part I don't agree with, but I digress.

I agree that the biggest flaw in FFXIV boss encounters is how scripted and predictable they are. They only random elements are: which party member is targeted by the bosses' mechanics and the orientation of certain things like Titan's bombs.

WoW had fights where the boss' next attack is chosen at random from a list of several possible attacks, and the party has to react accordingly.

They also had a fight where the boss has two unique attacks that are chosen randomly from a pool of five possible attacks. Whichever two you draw, you have to deal with that combination for the rest of the week until reset. If you get a tough combination or one that you're not used to, that's too bad. You either learn to beat it and give up on that boss and fail to progress until next week.

I think these concepts are pretty interesting and I hope 2.2 fights have more random elements.