Incrase the penalty for leaving a dungeon

[Rednight]

1. No, vote kick is still heavily abused, despite the risks
2. "FC mate got on, we are gonna kick you" No

SE's stance is that if you meet the ilvl requirement, your gear is good enough. The problem just happens to be that those ilvl requirements are not job-specific, but mostly tuned for healers, who don't need so much gear as dps and tanks do.

Sorry, wasn't done. Had to edit to bypass the limit.

I think vote kick having no penalty is a mistake. It literary promotes bad behaviour. "Why should i leave and get hit with 30 min when i can act like an a##, MPK people and don't do anything useful until they kick me, so i don't get a penalty at all"

As i say (well, after edit), it's not "abuse proof", but "FC mate came on, we kick you" is happening already, and will happen anyways.

[MeiUshu]

If you really want to penalize a player, sanction withg 1 day IG no donjons, meaning 24h of game time and not offline time, of course how many of you would scream to the devil if this was implemented ? a half-assed penalty has no effect on people, they just shrug it off and that is it.Then comes the *not the fault of the player* and how to differentiatewhat is and what is not? well you cant, so we are in the situation where we are today. Kicking for no reasons other then* isnt up to my standard* should be equally sanctioned, this is a game where everybody has the right to play,nobody is *God* in here. Abandon is the exception, an entire group decide to abandon, fine and fair.

Penalties like those we have today are just meant to give the masses a sense of comfort that something is being done to punish the culprits (ironical).

I do believe that people should first analyze their own behaviour and then come up with pointing fingers...but that is me...what do I know ?

Mei

[Sove92]

Sorry, wasn't done. Had to edit to bypass the limit.

I think vote kick having no penalty is a mistake. It literary promotes bad behaviour. "Why should i leave and get hit with 30 min when i can act like an a##, MPK people and don't do anything useful until they kick me, so i don't get a penalty at all"

As i say (well, after edit), it's not "abuse proof", but "FC mate came on, we kick you" is happening already, and will happen anyways.

It's only a mistake until you are hit with the penalty because people abused the vote kick. Can report them, they get punished, but the damage was done.

Yes, this is indeed happening, kick at last boss etc. so FC mate can get fast tomes whatever. Don't want SE to pretty much give their blessing to this.

[KraggyKor]

There is NO SOLUTION to this which can be implemented by the game without either being easily circumvented (as several comments here show) or which doesn't make non-jerks 'collateral damage' (eg. making a DC punishable).

Human nature, and the selfishness and selfcentredness that epitomises sections of the MMO playerbase in every MMO I've every played (7 so far) can't be controlled by software. Any idea you come up with will fail for one of these two reasons.

[jlewiss]

TBH the people that go afk or just turn off their internet to get out of a group deserve to have their accounts deleted forget the penalty. Either man up and take the penalty or suck it up and keep trying. People are so spineless in this game. it especially makes me lol when it's dps that does it cause im like "dude you do realize the amount of time you would get from the timer and trying to re join or the time your gonna spend going afk and waiting to get kicked then trying to re join is probably going to end up being an hour, an hour that you could of spent on the dungeon". DPS don't have the luxury of just getting kicked and instantly rejoining lol.

[Adrian74]

I think that 30 minutes is already a lot, but of course is only my nooby opinion....

This happened to me the other day:

There's especially one dungeon I hate a lot because of landscape and overall boring, it is Thousand Maws of Totorak... But, a new member of the FC had a trouble there and needed a tank because their one got disconnected and time happened and he didn't came back, so automatically got kicked out. Even if I hate the dungeon, of course, help him was priority! So I decided to join the dungeon in progress but...

I joined to another dungeon that also lost their tank or something and it was almost started... I told them to understand my position and kick me or vote abandon, but they had other plans, they needed to wait more than 30 minutes to enter because DPS bla bla.... (Ok, maybe my main classes are my dear tanks, but I also had DPS and the time didn't annoy me at all... Was crafting or gathering or doing FATE while waiting). Of course they didn't want to lose another tank and didn't kick me, neither accept the vote abandon...They gave me the option "Fight 20 minutes and then go help your friend or leave and wait 30"...

Of course, because I wouldn't play a dungeon I dislike knowing a friend needs me other side, and less play for people like that forcing me to do so, I left, I had wait the 30 minutes, my FC friend voted abandon on their duty and then, around an hour later, I helped him start the dungeon from zero, he was DPS and also had to wait 30 min for his dungeon and at the end it was abandon... At least didn't need to wait when party with me.

What I mean, 30 minutes is already enough for not allow you to help another friend of another party you wanted to get in... Why even more time? That day I seriously thought in level up my little lalafell marauder, and probably I will for cases like that.

Of course this is only my opinion and vision, who was right here? The DPS of the party I joined by error? my friend? me?... Probably nobody, it just depends of our own point of view, I can understand them, but, hell, definitely with a tank when you try to join a party in progress for help someone you can enter in the wrong one by error, and not all the people is willing to just let you go without suffer a 30 min punishment because "You are tank, you don't suffer the 30 min waitin like us, so at least leave if you want and eat that penalty"

[Velo_Vandore]

I'm really surprised that people think the gear level recommendation is too low. I entered haukke HM straight away when I unlocked it. First time the tank bailed saying gear had broke (not sure if true or not), next run we cleared it. I'm not sure exactly what my ilvl was, but it was more than likely low as it could be. Both were random DF groups. Maybe the healers gear level is less important, but I think people should give it a chance and have a little faith! I'm no pro, but you can overcome with a little patience and teamwork! It's much more fun to fight for a win, than to max out stats and faceroll stuff in 30mins, right?

Go watch the prepare to die runs by these guys - http://www.twitch.tv/ihellmasker/b/487643536. They start at ilvl13 gear or lower, only in a few slots (not inc. weapon) and go through dungeons in order. Going forward they only upgrade gear based on loot drops they can need on. There are other self imposed rules like not to raise in battle and 3 lives each. They get to Cutters Cry.

Guys, please learn to have fun and accept loss with some dignity when the odds are not 100% in your favor. Stop using other players in the duty finder to grind for your quick DR tomes :/ Some of us level to play, not play to level. If you hate losing so much you can't give a team an honest chance, don't be selfish - stay the hell away from the Duty Roulette / Duty Finder. Please ^^

[MeiUshu]

@jlewis

Ever thought that maybe said person didnt want to have YOU lose your time ? It happened to me, roulette time I signed up and was sent to....Siriu...I tried it a few minutes before I registered for Roulette couldnt pass Zu, was a nightmare. So I plainly stated that I wasnt in a position to keep my position and to pls kick me.. they didnt kick me I log off...really the end result for them is the same, they ended up with one healer down...with the only difference that for me refusing to have them lose their time, I got a penalty of time not a big deal really... maybe you would prefer that I stayed and had you lose your time in there ? sometimes people need to ..think rather then send out judgement and the like...

Mei

[Sove92]

TBH the people that go afk or just turn off their internet to get out of a group deserve to have their accounts deleted forget the penalty.

But it's impossible to prove they did that just to get out of the group.

[Velo_Vandore]

snip

I don't fully understand your point, but I would say please consider that not every player considers a failed run, or a slow run with many wipes a waste of time. I myself have recently unlocked Pharos Sirius. I want to explore all the area's and learn the strategies first hand without using a guide, so I decided not to use duty finder because most people will be frustrated by that (unfortunately). I tried to start a party finder group with criteria slow and easy, newcomers welcome, etc, but there was little interest in over 3 hours. I don't care to watch a guide before I run, as for myself I just consider that cheating, or something I would only do when I am out of steam and need extra help. I don't mind other people who want to watch guides first but I expect my decision to be understood as well and not considered inconsiderate or selfish.

Let's consider how and why you started the Sirius run - duty roulette right? Why do you think the roulette bonus exists? So experienced players can get more tomes faster? Of course not. The reason it's random is because the developer does not want dungeons such as Pharos Sirius to become dead for new players like me (waiting 3 hours in party finder, as healer, without success)! So they reward you experienced players to come and help the new players and give them a chance to experience the content. You are being payed a bonus in tomes to do that job. It's basically what you are signing up for when you enter duty roulette. But unfortunately, because of the views of the vast majority of the end game players I can't use the duty finder for that purpose. Players feel justified in screwing the noobs and abusing the roulette for quick tomes because it's what everyone else does, but I think each player should stop being ignorant and try to be accountable for their own choices.

If you don't get the dungeon you wanted, and decide to leave, doesn't it defeat the object of the roulette? If the team is struggling on a boss, isn't it your role as the experienced player to have faith in the team and keep helping them out. If the player wants to explore the dungeon and takes you up to the time limit, it's a valid way to play, otherwise the extra rooms / mobs wouldn't be there. Don't you think it's selfish to expect a bonus but still want to drag through the new players quickly and expect them to perform as an experienced player? If you haven't got time to fail, why is it you feel you deserve a bonus reward from the DR? Try to consider that while you may "waste" some time with an inexperienced group, you're being compensated by the bonus if you help them through it, and you get to feel good about helping new players!

I admit that realistically, one player such as yourself will not be able to change the game and the mentality of end game will stay the same, but I hope at least when you'll leave a dungeon you started on duty roulette, you'll understand the frustration of the rest of the group - you wanted tomes but only if you were to have an easy / quick win, and otherwise weren't willing to stick by them to the end. You shouldn't have joined duty roulette.

I'm not aiming this at you directly, or calling you selfish, based on one little post, but on my experiences with a lot of players in the game - so please don't take offense as none intended :P