Off Hand equipment for Classes and Jobs that don't use Shields

[Kitru]

You mean like them working on plugging a different FF sequel for weeks on end into FFXIV which people didn't even care for in the first place? Because that was *so* worth spending lots of man-hours on.

Marketing is as marketing does. Devs can't really argue with mandates from corporate requiring them to do tie ins.

[Giantbane]

The only "benefit" your set is providing is assuaging your arbitrary compulsive desire to see all slots filled even if the content of said slot is basically worthless. If a change doesn't actually improve to the game in an appreciable way, it's not a change worth discussing and that describes your idea perfectly.

It's more widgets to collect, which is half of the point for these types of games.

Besides, the shields are a little wonky now. They need to fit offhand drops for 1 class (and 2 other classes sorta, sometimes) into the existing drop pools. For instance, most classes get their full i95 level of stats from their main/offhand slot if they get an allagan weapon. However, blm and pld only have 1 hand allagan weapons, and as a result are capped at slightly lower stat points because they only have i90 offhand items available to them. If most (or all) classes had offhands, there'd be more uniformity to the loot between classes.

You could also do things like removing offhands from coil entirely, only dropping offhands from certain primal fights or something.

[Raestloz]

You guys are missing the point.

The correct action would be to just hide the slot when a 2-hander is equipped. It's there and you can hove rover it to reveal it, but otherwise it's hidden

Boom. Problem solved

[Kitru]

It's more widgets to collect, which is half of the point for these types of games.

Except that you're adding a new category of widget that basically does nothing as opposed to adding new widgets to those categories that already exist that are designed to actually do something. The argument that it's new gear and therefore a good idea doesn't really work because gear is supposed to actually do something useful (barring the collectable event stuff, which the OP isn't suggesting these be) whereas all this new type of gear does is fill up a slot that's currently left empty because there's no need for it. The purpose of this suggestion isn't to fix some balance question but purely to assuage someone's obsessiveness with filling all of their slots. It's like someone complaining about not being able to be stack weapons/armor/etc in their inventory and demanding that the devs design a new aspect of the inventory system so that they can stack them while still preserving the independent identity of each item.

For instance, most classes get their full i95 level of stats from their main/offhand slot if they get an allagan weapon. However, blm and pld only have 1 hand allagan weapons, and as a result are capped at slightly lower stat points because they only have i90 offhand items available to them. If most (or all) classes had offhands, there'd be more uniformity to the loot between classes.

There's a few problems with your analysis here.

First off, current offhands afford more than just the basic stats on them because of the block rating/value so it's not like there is no benefit to using MH/OH as opposed to a 2h MH. The only class that doesn't "benefit" from this is PLD and that's only because they're built around using a shield at all times.

Secondly, the fact that PLD doesn't have an i95 offhand means that they're shorted a single point of VIT/STR/secondary out of total stat pools of several hundred, which means that the impact of the shield "penalty" is less than than of your racial selection. Choosing to be a Lalafell instead of a Roegadyn is going to do more to your tank stats than having 1/3rd of your MH budget being i90 instead of i95. If you're going to complain about the stat difference, be prepared to face the fact that you'd also need to complain about relative strength of certain races and subraces at given jobs/roles since that matters more.

Lastly, as to uniformity of loot, offhands represent a laughably minor aspect since there are only 3 classes that use them and only one of them uses them often. The bigger issue is that DoW DPS classes have a much greater chance of getting drops because there is always 1 piece of gear for each of those classes to use explicitly: for accs, there are 2 STR pieces for MNK and DRG and 1 for BRD alone and, for the rest of the gear, there's one piece for MNK, one for DRG, and one for BRD. For tanks, healers, and casters, there is a single piece of loot for each given tier, in every single slot except for MH, that is used by 2 classes. MNK, DRG, and BRD have twice the chance of getting useful gear compared to the other classes, which represents a helluva lot bigger issue to uniformity and balance of loot distribution than the altogether ignorable "penalty" associated with having to find a shield in addition to an MH (especially given that shields tend to drop earlier than actual MHs so they're easier to get). Complaining about OHs screwing up distribution of loot is just getting anal retentive.

You could also do things like removing offhands from coil entirely, only dropping offhands from certain primal fights or something.

Which simply means that you'd have those fights providing the new category of gear rather than more gear for the current categories, which reduces the options for the slots we already have. Furthermore, because the stats are so intended to be so low, the only place you'd see them would be the end game and, even then, they would have to have a lot of space between the relative upgrades because of cripplingly low itemization budget afforded to the slot. You'd be displacing options for current gear slots (which would be class/job specific, as well, instead of role specific, further increasing the glut) for items that no one is really going to see much of (because it's endgame exclusive), won't really have much choice in what to take (small itemization budget and specific class/job limitation means that there will be fewer potential stat allocations and a higher ratio of not-equippable to equippable items), and won't even have the chance to upgrade without massive increases in item level (low itemization budget; with i90 providing 3, going from 3 to 4 for whatever stat is a 25% increase in total itemization budget, which, at best, means having a 20+ ilevel gap between upgrades).

[XanderOlivieri]

You guys are missing the point.

The correct action would be to just hide the slot when a 2-hander is equipped. It's there and you can hove rover it to reveal it, but otherwise it's hidden

Boom. Problem solved

That would only work with everything but Arcanist with the ability to fill the off hand slot if and only if Conjurer and Thaumaturge don't use two handed weapons in exchange and aren't running with shields for what ever reason they choose to not fully utilize everything at their disposal.

I wouldn't want just Arcanist to get item fillers even as bonus things when other classes don't get equal rights to them.

Also assuming we get more 1 handed only classes in the future, still would be weird.

[Raestloz]

That would only work with everything but Arcanist

The real problem is this:

This is something that has slightly bugged me. I don't really like looking at an empty slot on my character window and believe that every game should have a way to fill every character's equipment slot.

So the correct action is not try to retrofit everyone with off-hand items, but to hide the slot so you no longer see empty slot. The cover can be anything, from plain old total transparency to something that looks like an off-hand item

[Giantbane]

stuff.

Oh, like there's a whole lot of variety now. VIT + Main stat + secondary stats the end. Even secondary stats don't provide much in the way of choice. Secondary stats only end up having 2 best options anyhow. Gear for accuracy (coil) or no accuracy (primals). So what is that more flexibility going to give us? Ability to add more gear with subpar stats?

And it's perfectly acceptable to just have a stat stick.
Rings? stat stick. DoH have offhands? same.

Bloat on itemization? Very small. Every class already has 12 slots to fill, 1 has 13, and 2 others have 13 ... sometimes. Adding a 13th for all other classes would not add very much in the grand scheme of things. And since it has the lowest item budget of any item, there don't even need to be that many options for them. Even less if some classes can share some of those offhands.

And you can't make the i95 argument that it's "ok" because they gain block for losing that ilvl on the shield. That's not how the VAST majority of the game works. Most of time, there's an exact ilevel appropriate off hand to match any ilevel MH. They didn't purposely not add the i95 offhand because of some semblance of balance. The devs just didn't want to find some place to stick it.

Besides, you can't tell me the whole way it's set up isn't very awkward right now. For classes that can use 2h or 1h+shield, there is no benefit whatsoever to getting the 2h item. Those classes *usually* use the 2h item anyway, but that's just because they aren't given any options for the 2h item.

Even the places they drop are weird. Outside of tokens usually means that class gives up the offhand for the MH slot. There's no titan sword, for instance. Even with tokens you can end up with some bizarre mismatches. There's a BLM primal 2h and a BLM primal offhand. If every class had off hands, then at least every class would be treated the same way, not a bunch of special cases just to wedge off hands in for those few classes that need it.

Lastly, as to uniformity of loot, offhands represent a laughably minor aspect since there are only 3 classes that use them and only one of them uses them often. The bigger issue is that DoW DPS classes have a much greater chance of getting drops because there is always 1 piece of gear for each of those classes to use explicitly: for accs, there are 2 STR pieces for MNK and DRG and 1 for BRD alone and, for the rest of the gear, there's one piece for MNK, one for DRG, and one for BRD. For tanks, healers, and casters, there is a single piece of loot for each given tier, in every single slot except for MH, that is used by 2 classes. MNK, DRG, and BRD have twice the chance of getting useful gear compared to the other classes, which represents a helluva lot bigger issue to uniformity and balance of loot distribution than the altogether ignorable "penalty" associated with having to find a shield in addition to an MH (especially given that shields tend to drop earlier than actual MHs so they're easier to get).

This I will agree with. And it's a more important issue too. But it's also a separate issue and has no bearing on the pros or cons of adding an offhand slot.

Complaining about OHs screwing up distribution of loot is just getting anal retentive.

Not having off hands for most classes isn't some catastrophic omission for the game. But adding them isn't the terrible idea you seem to be making it out to be either. The only counter argument that I agree with in any fashion is that it adds to a bloated item system. But the addition would be so small, I think the increased uniformity to class drops and the benefit of getting extra stuff to collect outweighs this.

[Radriel]

I think there is no problem with the idea as long as we take out the minor/useless stats on these "offhand" items and just making them purely cosmetic. So if he wants super shiny arrows on his bard he can have them or what have you. And if we also make these part of an event or quest of some kind and not part of dungeon drops then it won't mess with loot tables. Or make it craftable to help the market. I personally would like to see more of these kinds of items because they are fun to collect. I do agree that we shouldn't let that part of the game interfere with the other aspects of the game that deal with being an effective combatant. In this particular instance, I think it's possible to have our cake and eat it.

[Cspr_Answrth]

For a Bard, I could see an arrow quiver, or using a crossbow instead of a bow (in order to free up the off-hand).

:3

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I like the idea overall. Rather than instruments for Bards, how about sights (for bows, craftable items) or armguards (also craftable)?

It would be nice if they're visible items, but even if not, I'd take the stat or even ability boosts they could provide. They don't need to be next to useless, nor a huge buff either. All in all, it's just a good idea, especially if it gets crafters involved again. Hell, for that matter, make them available ONLY through crafting or maybe treasure hunts.