Personally, I'd rather you scrap the Armoury System then Lock 1 Job to 1 Weapon.

[Davorok]

I am not a big fan of the Armoury System. I think it is a convoluted mess that strips away the "Role" in Role-Playing-Game. All SE really did with this system is to allow people to play as a WAR/WHM, MNK/RDM, DRG/BLM or any other abomination of traditional (read effective) Party-Based Play without being ostracized, humiliated and bullied into changing their subjob.

Since our skill sets are private, we can play as any lame setup we desire and since battles are so chaotic and over so quickly, no one notices how badly someone is leaching and not really contributing. Now, I am no Elitist and I really don't care what or how anyone plays as this game is VERY solo-friendly so experiment all you want and create a Frankenstien Monster Hybrid if you wish but there will always be peer pressure (elitism) when it comes to Party-Based Content and it is specifically for Party-Based-Content that the new "Jobs" are being created for.

No Party will want a Lancer/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Pugilist/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Conjurer/Dragoon. (period)

Yes, elitism sux but that's just the way it is and always will be cuz PT's always want the most efficient party setups, whether it be for EXP, NM's or Raids. Do and be whatever you want for solo-play but everyone eventually has to conform to the standards of what is "best" for PTing.

I could be wrong (I often am) and I am just speculating (along with everyone else) but I think the new "Jobs" are specifically designed to enhance Dungeon/Raid fights where specific monsters are fought and specific goals are met. In other words a "Paladin" would be very beneficial against a Dungeon Boss (perhaps required) but useless against random mobs in the open world (no real benefit so not even available).

A "Thief" specialty would be very useful for getting that rare drop in a dungeon (Treasure Hunter) but useless in open world (TH does not affect "normal drops").

Maybe they will make the "Jobs" available to any Class at any time but it seems rather pointless to me and would just make an already muddled game even worse.

Sandboxes are for children. Games are for teens. Jobs are for adults.

[giftforce]

I have said from the beginning that Weapon=Class was a bad idea. Classes should have been classes on their own not weapon specialisations. Weapons should then been just part of your equipment that you skill up on and unlock unique weapon skills on that is it.

Classes should have been Jobs from the very start and housed their own skills and abilities that you gained as you ranked up and not defined by the weapon. Sure certain weapons types would be better than others for certain classes but at least I could be a Lance wielding GLA if I choose for certain situations.

I really hope that SE has something planned to address this as I don't want to find out something like MRD unlocks DRK and then I am tied to a G.Axe on DRK forever as that is ridiculous.

I thought that's what the job system would allow us to do: Let us have a job that could use multiple weapons (weapons which we've ranked up through the class system).

SE is having yet another crisis of ideas.

It's like they don't even understand their own game anymore...

And Cairdeas, I wonder when they are finally going to listen to you. You certainly make enough threads on this issue. You're kind of hard to miss.

[Rowyne]

I am not a big fan of the Armoury System. I think it is a convoluted mess that strips away the "Role" in Role-Playing-Game. All SE really did with this system is to allow people to play as a WAR/WHM, MNK/RDM, DRG/BLM or any other abomination of traditional (read effective) Party-Based Play without being ostracized, humiliated and bullied into changing their subjob.

Thank the Gods someone had the courage to say this. ^

No Party will want a Lancer/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Pugilist/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Conjurer/Dragoon. (period)

This conjured up some of the most hilarious visuals ever, especially the last one. Cloth armor and lances ftw.

Do and be whatever you want for solo-play but everyone eventually has to conform to the standards of what is "best" for PTing. [snip] I could be wrong (I often am) and I am just speculating (along with everyone else) but I think the new "Jobs" are specifically designed to enhance Dungeon/Raid fights where specific monsters are fought and specific goals are met.

Absolutely correct. If you want challenging encounters, you have to have a party that can rise to the occasion. If everyone is playing mediocre mixes, then SE is forced to make mediocre boss fights. And I think we can all agree nobody wants that anymore.

Sandboxes are for children. Games are for teens. Jobs are for adults.

Pure win. That is a sig-quote worthy phrase.

[AlexiaKidd]

Well said Dravorok, I am tired of SE catering to Solo Players. If they want to cater to them give them solo specific Jobs like Beastmaster. A Solo Player shouldn't play as a White Mage as a White Mage's role is to heal and buff people. They could allow for you to call your companion to fight alongside yourself and fulfil a role, so if you were a WHM you could gear your Companion as a PLD to tank for you. They could add solo content, Leves would be a good start and maybe something like Campaign from FFXI so they can take part in large scale battles if they choose without grouping up. There are lots of things they could do to cater to solo players while still making a straight up Job system.

Hell at this point I would welcome Job/Sub Job, I thought it was a great system and it worked very well for the most part it provided a lot of flexibility in that you could change your sub to suit the situation. If you were going to solo /DNC, if you wanted straight up DD go /SAM, /WAR and so on there were only a few things that really broke it for the most part (I'm looking at you Utsusemi).

I just do not like where I see this Class/Job hybrid system going as it seems to be going even further against what the Armoury system was designed for but then it is not going far enough in the other direction and is just kind of stuck in the middle not really deciding which way it is going to go. SE needs to decide are they going to go with the Job system with defined roles or the Class system where you create your own as at the minute it is looking like a mish mash of both and neither of which excel.

If they do go with a Job system then all they would have to do is take our total Class SP and allow us to distribute it among the new Jobs as we saw fit on a one time deal thing, that I would prefer than a complete wipe and restart.

[Physic]

Well said Dravorok, I am tired of SE catering to Solo Players. If they want to cater to them give them solo specific Jobs like Beastmaster. A Solo Player shouldn't play as a White Mage as a White Mage's role is to heal and buff people. They could allow for you to call your companion to fight alongside yourself and fulfil a role, so if you were a WHM you could gear your Companion as a PLD to tank for you. They could add solo content, Leves would be a good start and maybe something like Campaign from FFXI so they can take part in large scale battles if they choose without grouping up. There are lots of things they could do to cater to solo players while still making a straight up Job system.

Hell at this point I would welcome Job/Sub Job, I thought it was a great system and it worked very well for the most part it provided a lot of flexibility in that you could change your sub to suit the situation. If you were going to solo /DNC, if you wanted straight up DD go /SAM, /WAR and so on there were only a few things that really broke it for the most part (I'm looking at you Utsusemi).

I just do not like where I see this Class/Job hybrid system going as it seems to be going even further against what the Armoury system was designed for but then it is not going far enough in the other direction and is just kind of stuck in the middle not really deciding which way it is going to go. SE needs to decide are they going to go with the Job system with defined roles or the Class system where you create your own as at the minute it is looking like a mish mash of both and neither of which excel.

I dunno if i like the 1 to 1 idea, but i like static jobs or subjobs even less.

[Richard]

They changed the system once, they aren't going to change it a second time. Love it or hate it, love to hate it, hate to love it - play or don't.

i t d o e s n t m a t t e r

[AlexiaKidd]

I dunno if i like the 1 to 1 idea, but i like static jobs or subjobs even less.

Well from the sound of it Classes are not going to allowed to cross class as freely as they do now and the Job system sounds like cross classing will not be possible at all so would be Job with no Sub Job. I do not like the sound of that at all and makes a complete mockery of what they game was designed to be while not going far enough away from it to be something completely new so we are just left with a mess of a system.

[Aldarin]

So there are many current complaints about the class system and a lack of specific roles for party play. That more than anything seems to be the reason why SE is implementing a Job system. I do believe that implementing one weapon per job would ruin the game for a large number of players. There is actually an easy way to resolve this, which has been suggested in past posts, with a 2-tier job/class system.

The system could keep the current idea of classes unlocking jobs after a certain level, the only difference is that after that jobs would not be linked to classes. Thus a player would choose what role/job they want to play, and then choose a weapon to go with that job. This leaves the freedom available from the armory system, but also provides party-specific roles for players.

Granted some job and weapon combinations would not work as well as others, but sometime a non-traditional weapon can give a non-tradition.
Thus you could be traditional and play a Paladin/Gladiator or you could be non-traditional and play a Paladin/Marauder. Both jobs are viable options, only the Paladin/Gladiator would focus more on Defense and the Paladin/Marauder would focus more on offense.

The only hope I have is that SE takes their time in order to produce an effective and unique system that pleases players. Given the amount of time spent waiting, I believe the player base would prefer a well-thought out system, even if it takes longer. SE really only has one chance to redo the job/class system, and it could quite easily break the game.

As for a contrary point to some other comments.

I am not a big fan of the Armoury System. I think it is a convoluted mess that strips away the "Role" in Role-Playing-Game. All SE really did with this system is to allow people to play as a WAR/WHM, MNK/RDM, DRG/BLM or any other abomination of traditional (read effective) Party-Based Play without being ostracized, humiliated and bullied into changing their subjob.

Since our skill sets are private, we can play as any lame setup we desire and since battles are so chaotic and over so quickly, no one notices how badly someone is leaching and not really contributing. Now, I am no Elitist and I really don't care what or how anyone plays as this game is VERY solo-friendly so experiment all you want and create a Frankenstien Monster Hybrid if you wish but there will always be peer pressure (elitism) when it comes to Party-Based Content and it is specifically for Party-Based-Content that the new "Jobs" are being created for.

No Party will want a Lancer/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Pugilist/Paladin (unless no Glads are available).
No Party will want a Conjurer/Dragoon. (period)

I feel that this attitude is very small-minded. Granted, there are no specifics for party role specification, but that doesn't mean the solution is over-specification. Many people like to explore in games and have freedom, which is why games like Fallout 3 are so popular.
While not traditional plays, the aforementioned job/class combinations all bring benefits to the party. A Paladin/Lancer would lack some of the defensive power of a traditional Paladin/Gladiator, but would also make up for it with increased damage and use of Speed Surge or Life Surge, providing greater regeneration over time. A Paladin/Pugilist is the equivalent of a PLD/NIN in FFXI, which would have been awesome if it could hold hate, and was the solo choice for many a paladin player. It was also used in some raids as the preferred main/sub of choice for a tank As for Dragoon/Conjurer, mixing a melee and a mage class doesn't tend to work well, but I can still remember the fun times I had with my DRG/BLU, where with another DRG/Mage we could keep a party healed even without a Healer. Add in a DNC or /DNC for aspir drain and there was literally no downtime for the party.

[Nuru]

Solo Players can just choose to NOT use a Job. The Job System is made for the sole purpose of playing a single role in a party. The Armory System was made to benefit the casual players so that they can survive on their own, without having a job and locking out helpful abilities.
Plus, why use a Job if you are soloing anyways? not like your Job will Level Up.

[Lerris]

Well from the sound of it Classes are not going to allowed to cross class as freely as they do now and the Job system sounds like cross classing will not be possible at all so would be Job with no Sub Job. I do not like the sound of that at all and makes a complete mockery of what they game was designed to be while not going far enough away from it to be something completely new so we are just left with a mess of a system.

We will not be completely losing the ability to cross class freely, and there are already currently skills that cannot be cross-classed. The mix of skills available will change, but the ability to use skills from other classes won't. Jobs will restrict some cross-class skills above and beyond that, but the language in the battle reform blueprint does not imply that no cross class skills will be available to "jobbed" characters.