90k errors and YOU SE

[KupoNuts]

It seems I spent more time waiting for maintenances to complete or trying to log in after 90000 error for the last week than I actually played the game...6 months after release. I have no intentions of quitting, but please pull yourself together SE.

[Shioban]

I would say you really are missing the point if you think parroting the ToS has any relevance to the topic. Any MMO ToS basically states that developers can treat their players like complete garbage if they choose to, but that doesn't necessarily mean that players will sit down and happily allow and keep paying for a game where the developers abuse it.

Actually, it is a valid point. Because you agreed to it. Yet again you've failed to see the point.
As for your analogy of "They could ban anyone at any time!", yes if they see fit to ban you for something they deem harmful to their game or the people playing it they are completley within their right to withdraw your access to the game, but this is completely off topic.

No-one is treating you like "garbage", don't make it out that someone in intentionally making your life a misery.

It's a video game built on flawed technology, it could break at any moment and multiple times throughout the week.

As human beings its easy to get angry at something that we don't understand, or when something suddenly doesn't work for no apparent reason.

The Terms of Service are a given, you can't avoid that. Maturity and respectful understanding however are something people seem to severely lack.
Things will break, things will need to be fixed, you have to deal with it.


Having a few hours downtime on a game that is up almost 24/7 is perfectly acceptable, deal with it.


"But why didn't they fix this in the beginning?"

Originally the servers purchased for the data centrers were quite cheap, the game had failed once before.
So the 3-5 months prior to the Alpha stage, they considered their projected number of players and worked around this data.

Servers cost a HUGE amount of money to set-up, run and maintain. As the original projected number of players was quite low it's very easy to see how the Alpha/Beta/Release stages had capacity issues.
It's takes at least 3-4 months to set up a new set of servers, this is not something you can do over-night and can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to set up initially.

So when the BETA and release stage had numbers way beyond what they expected it took weeks to condense what would normally take months to prepare for in order to compensate for the huge influx of new and old players trying to access the game.

"Why does any of this matter now, surely they'd just replace them?"

No. It would still cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to replace and set them up. The issue being that its an incredibly risky financial investment to replace hardware when you've only recently purchased hardware, essentially doubling or tripling your expenditure for the sake of a slightly faster/more stable output.

But the biggest point is, all this would NOT prevent issues such as the instanced server issues over the past two days, or the other server issues we've encountered in the past few months. Newer hardware simply would not avoid the issue.



TL;DR Servers are expensive to set-up and replace costing hundreds of thousands of dollars. Replacing these would not prevent everything that has happened from happening.
Stop trying to make it out as if they're targeting you and /laughing. The game will break and go down occasionally, deal with it.

[Clavaat]

Sorry, I don't know what Level3.net is.

So, how is this an issue with a person's internet service provider?

This is a Google search away. It's not your ISP or SE per se, but the communication between the two. Extreme packet loss started occurring awhile ago for Verizon and other customers who use a Level3.net Content Delivery Network to communicate to Ormuco Data Solutions. Highlight, right-click, search Google for X, it's been explained here many times. Please look up information on the subject before posting erroneous complaints.

[Tirabi]

Because my ISP wouldn't drop my entire group during a full FC run. We live 1000's of miles apart. Don't be ridiculous

What do people assume 90k error is always on the game side?

It could be your ISP as well, it just writes down any server drop as 90k.

Quickly check your wifi to see if its working during a 90k.

[Susanoh]

Actually, it is a valid point. Because you agreed to it. Yet again you've failed to see the point.
As for your analogy of "They could ban anyone at any time!", yes if they see fit to ban you for something they deem harmful to their game or the people playing it they are completley within their right to withdraw your access to the game, but this is completely off topic.

No-one is treating you like "garbage", don't make it out that someone in intentionally making your life a misery.

I'm only responding to this part of your post because the rest of it goes off on things that I never argued and have no interest in arguing.

If you think my analogy is off topic, then you aren't seeing the complete uselessness in parroting the ToS as if it has relevance to the discussion.

By agreeing to the ToS, you agree that SE can ban you at any time "for no reason." Not "if they find you harmful to the game" or any of that. It specifically states "FOR NO REASON" in all capital letters for you to see. If you wouldn't be satisfied with SE randomly banning you or a bunch of your friends just for giggles, then you agreed to something that you wouldn't put up with. In which case, what you agreed to you're only willing to put up with on a case by case basis, making the entire argument that "this is what you signed up for" pointless.

Edit: To make this more clear, no player in their right mind would ever in a million years play a game where developers abused their ToS to the fullest extent they are technically allowed. To even suggest that players should roll over and deal with something not just because it's the reasonable thing to do (which is fine), but because it's in the ToS, is ridiculous.

[Karnyboy]

All I see is:

Waaa Waaa waaaa waaaaa....

You guys are funny

[Randelmire]

This is a Google search away. It's not your ISP or SE per se, but the communication between the two. Extreme packet loss started occurring awhile ago for Verizon and other customers who use a Level3.net Content Delivery Network to communicate to Ormuco Data Solutions. Highlight, right-click, search Google for X, it's been explained here many times. Please look up information on the subject before posting erroneous complaints.

I came to say something similar. It's probably a link somewhere between you and the servers that is bad. It happens, a VPN can probably force your connection to take another route but that's pretty much it. I don't even think SE themselve can do something about it.

I live in Longueuil which is the city south of Montréal, where the servers are hosted. Other than the bad server issues at launch I never had a 90K error.

[Errors]

A fun read while servers are being worked on: http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/09/13/wo...ory-of-realms/

[Shioban]

If you think my analogy is off topic, then you aren't seeing the complete uselessness in parroting the ToS as if it has relevance to the discussion.

By agreeing to the ToS, you agree that SE can ban you at any time "for no reason." Not "if they find you harmful to the game" or any of that. It specifically states "FOR NO REASON" in all capital letters for you to see. If you wouldn't be satisfied with SE randomly banning you or a bunch of your friends just for giggles, then you agreed to something that you wouldn't put up with. In which case, what you agreed to you're only willing to put up with on a case by case basis, making the entire argument that "this is what you signed up for" pointless.

Edit: To make this more clear, no player in their right mind would ever in a million years play a game where developers abused their ToS to the fullest extent they are technically allowed. To even suggest that players should roll over and deal with something not just because it's the reasonable thing to do (which is fine), but because it's in the ToS, is ridiculous.

I haven't seen or heard of them banning anyone for "No Reason", that's simply there incase someone gets accidently banned to cover their behinds.
Stop trying to scapegoat the subject.


I posted it because people were whining "I want my money back, I want my time back, GOD ITS NOT FAIR!". So, yes you DID miss the point and your analogy has nothing to do with the topic at hand, because you DID sign up for this and its very clearly relevant.

To even suggest that players should roll over and deal with something not just because it's the reasonable thing to do (which is fine), but because it's in the ToS, is ridiculous.

By no means, roll over and let them tickle your belly for 2 hours. But everyone agreed to the ToS which says "You agree that we'll take the game down whenever we please for as long as we please". That's why you agreed to it in the first place.

The big issue here however is not the Terms of Service, or people getting banned, or why the sky is blue.

It's people who are crying and complaining about something they don't understand. When the basic answer is; "Things break, they need fixed, get over it".

That's my original point, if you can't understand that /shrug. (Ah well, at least I tried)

[Susanoh]

I haven't seen or heard of them banning anyone for "No Reason", that's simply there incase someone gets accidently banned to cover their behinds.
Stop trying to scapegoat the subject.

I posted it because people were whining "I want my money back, I want my time back, GOD ITS NOT FAIR!". So, yes you DID miss the point and your analogy has nothing to do with the topic at hand, because you DID sign up for this and its very clearly relevant.

There's no scapegoating going on here, I'm being fairly straightforward. If you can understand why players would complain if SE decided to start putting players' names up on a dart board and banning anyone the dart hits, then you understand that a player's expectations of their service is different from what they technically signed up for. Also, that if a player finds the service inadequate, they will make their voices heard regardless of what it says in the ToS. The entire thing is there to "cover their behind" as you put it, players understand well that developers will do what they want to, but they aren't going to sit and be quiet if they dislike the service they are getting.

It's people who are crying and complaining about something they don't understand. When the basic answer is; "Things break, they need fixed, get over it".

That's my original point, if you can't understand that /shrug. (Ah well, at least I tried)

Not sure why you'd think I don't understand that, I can see both sides of the argument just fine and never argued in favor of either of them. What I disagreed with is you using the ToS as leverage in your argument as if the ToS mattered at all.