The new system and the old system. Constrained.

[AlexiaKidd]

Basic attack accounts for a very large portion of damage.

But they entire battle system is being overhauled so what applies now won't matter. They said in the battle reform blueprint that they wanted to make sure battles were challenging and you could not win with just auto attack.

Edit to add:

Can you even give me one instance in the game where you actually need to stop attacking the mob for a brief period of time and then during that time you can build you can build your stamina back up?

[Physic]

But they entire battle system is being overhauled so what applies now won't matter. They said in the battle reform blueprint that they wanted to make sure battles were challenging and you could not win with just auto attack.

Edit to add:

Can you even give me one instance in the game where you actually need to stop attacking the mob for a brief period of time and then during that time you can build you can build your stamina back up?

killing wolves its best to wait for full stamina and burst them down so they cant steal hp, anytime you run from an enemy's ws you lower your dps in an AA/stamina less system, but in a stamina system your stamina is recovering and you can go back and burst again. If you put a monster to sleep you can wait for stamina and burst it. When you do a battle regimen you are best off using an amount of stamina proportional to how long you think people will take to put their skills up before you go.

Most people didnt learn stamina because parties are easy mode within 10 levels, if you fight low man, or did big groups before and actually needed to adapt to your enemies, stamina was a very useful tool so you didnt lose dps for not doing something in one small instance. people never learned to use it, or learned the tricks of various monsters because the new sp system makes hard fights unworth it.

Stamina was very hard on tanks, but they could have altered that.

stamina was used to balance the cost of skills making them worthwhile, a big reason on evade/dodge/parry skills were worthwhile was because they cost little stamina. Its not the only way, but it had advantages

Be sure they will use cooldowns to manage skills, they have already said they will. the questions are how much, and what other resources they will use to balance the skills. If they thought something needed half your stamina bar, they will make a system that mimics that cost in some way shape or form.

[viion]

killing wolves its best to wait for full stamina and burst them down so they cant steal hp, anytime you run from an enemy's ws you lower your dps in an AA/stamina less system, but in a stamina system your stamina is recovering and you can go back and burst again.

So now you just hit them a bunch get 3000 tp and burst out 3 weapon skills, doing the exact same thing as before but without the waiting. Wow. limitations!?!?!?

[Shai]

So now you just hit them a bunch get 3000 tp and burst out 3 weapon skills, doing the exact same thing as before but without the waiting. Wow. limitations!?!?!?

Did you even bother to read what he wrote? It's not the same.

Auto-Attack won't be function if you run out of range of a Mob WS. You lose out on TP & Damage.

Previously (currently) you refill stamina while you're doing this so it has an advantage when you turn around and move back in range.

You're a smart person most of the time, Viion. You can see there's a difference. Stop rushing this thread so aggressively. There's pros and cons to both situations and some people prefer one to the other (gasp). It's no big deal. It's not like we (the current & old system supporters) are going to get what we want anyway. We're just exchanging ideas.

[viion]

Did you even bother to read what he wrote? It's not the same.

Auto-Attack won't be function if you run out of range of a Mob WS. You lose out on TP & Damage.

Previously (currently) you refill stamina while you're doing this so it has an advantage when you turn around and move back in range.

You're a smart person most of the time, Viion. You can see there's a difference. Stop rushing this thread so aggressively. There's pros and cons to both situations and some people prefer one to the other (gasp). It's no big deal. It's not like we (the current & old system supporters) are going to get what we want anyway. We're just exchanging ideas.

So long as your in battle you dont lose TP and if you watched the video you will see that the pug runs through the goblin to do additional attacks from the rear, oh yeh and not losing all his TP (or any if I remember).

Why would you run out of range, you dont even need to do that to refil the bar you just... do nothing.............

Confused the fuck out here why you got to be running around like a headless chicken.

Not to mention if your so obsessed to run out of range to get the guage up, you cant hit it no matter how much you spam 1....................

Infact removing guage means you dont need to run out like a moron to store it up, you can just go straight into w/e you had planned =)

[Physic]

So long as your in battle you dont lose TP and if you watched the video you will see that the pug runs through the goblin to do additional attacks from the rear, oh yeh and not losing all his TP (or any if I remember).

Why would you run out of range, you dont even need to do that to refil the bar you just... do nothing.............

Confused the fuck out here why you got to be running around like a headless chicken.

Not to mention if your so obsessed to run out of range to get the guage up, you cant hit it no matter how much you spam 1....................

Infact removing guage means you dont need to run out like a moron to store it up, you can just go straight into w/e you had planned =)

in a cool down tp system, any time you are not gaining tp, or using your cool down skills when available you are lowering your dps.

Where before it was always worthwhile to dodge a bad WS, now its a question of is it worth it to lose AA damage and the tp generated from being close, and as well the fact that you may not use the Cooldown skill as soon as its available.

There are advantages that a stamina system has to fighting depth, but its just not what some people want, whatever, but its not the same system.

[viion]

in a cool down tp system, any time you are not gaining tp, or using your cool down skills when available you are lowering your dps.

Where before it was always worthwhile to dodge a bad WS, now its a question of is it worth it to lose AA damage and the tp generated from being close, and as well the fact that you may not use the Cooldown skill as soon as its available.

There are advantages that a stamina system has to fighting depth, but its just not what some people want, whatever, but its not the same system.

Man what are you on about lol, giving me a head storm that im just going to go point to point.

Your first point is practically saying when ur not using ur skills or gaining tp ur lowering ur DPS, but the current system relies on u always hitting attack which can be slow simetimes when u gotta scroll across 30 slots, and ofc again it relies on your timing which still has a delay due to the stamina, the new system does this all automatically to the exact millisecond even if your picking your nose or jacking off your DPS aint gunna change but be better than before.

And then you go on about dodging, if you're locked on you can just press left or right and you dodge, you'd always face the target due to lock on and always be in range, also if you dont do lockon like me, then run through the mob, its always better evasive than running the direction the mob is facing... Also you wont lose TP this way.

You dont know how far AA range is, if its like XI it's pretty damn good, infact it'd be same range as you can do now on XIV with your manual attack, granted only mages would really get affected but im fine with that, i'd rather be doing other stuff when its fixed.

There is absolute no advantages to stamina at all, its just another restriction.

Because you need
- The right MP/TP
- The cooldown to be 0
- The stamina amount

Now they removing the Stamina
wow now... now you only have 2 restrictions, aint that a joy...

Sorry for the insulting sarcasm but it needs to be said.

People think this illusion of being able to do lots of skills at once, you cant, you still have to wait for a cooldown, and saying that will be higher is just arguing over make belief crap. We have a video right there infront of us, and cooldowns look fine, nothings changed, all fine and dandy.

The way I see it, is before I had 3 different skills I want to do, all cost 1000 TP but because they each use 50% stamina I couldn't chain them i'd have to do 2 then just wait it out. But the new system lets me do them because it removes the stamina restriction.

Then whilst I was deciding which skills to use and planning my strategy the system was helping me out by attacking and gaining me the TP so I can focus on the important things. It would gain TP and be a faster DPS than me because I play controller and I'd hit Light stab and then I might wanna do slow which is on pad 2 so i gotta switch then maybe Poison so I switch to Pad 3 and then back up to light stab and im hitting buttons all over place and its like navigating a flipping TV box set.

I want to play a game, not a UI. Theres no reason for me to keep spamming 1 1 1 1 over and over, its no different if it does it for me. Do you walk everywhere or drive? Do you light some matches in the garden and prop up pig on wood and cook your own bacon or use a gril from the bacon the farmer made and you bought at the market.

Everything you can possible degrade on the new battle system you can already degrade in the current system, with the additional downgrade of it has a Stamina restriction currently.

Um. You're not running around like a headless chicken.
You're making a calculated effort to avoid conal or circular AOE.
It's incidentally quite easy in this game. I liked that, wanted it expanded on even.

Purposely moving about and not attacking allows stamina to recharge. It was a direct answer to the question "When would you purposely be doing nothing to allow stamina to recharge?" or something to that effect. Sleep & Bind also come to mind.

Read my post above because if you're losing TP and running so far the mob loses battle, then yes you're running like a headless chicken and should stop playing this game because you suck so bad at it, you can easily dodge with facing the mob every second. And so what? You're now upset that a bar is not being filled up so you can do more stuff because the bar restricts you where as now the new system has no bar and you dont need to wait for it you can just go right ahead and do your skills LIKE SHOWN IN THE VIDEO BY THE PUGILIST ZOMG

Sadly I know either one of you is going to come back with some crazy gesture that it offers depth for some lame excuse like "its an addition!", if your gf's addition was hiv would you do it? but sadly I has to sleep, so this thread can die like every other thread does. Except awesome ones like 1-to-50

[Shai]

So long as your in battle you dont lose TP and if you watched the video you will see that the pug runs through the goblin to do additional attacks from the rear, oh yeh and not losing all his TP (or any if I remember).

Why would you run out of range, you dont even need to do that to refil the bar you just... do nothing.............

Confused the fuck out here why you got to be running around like a headless chicken.

Not to mention if your so obsessed to run out of range to get the guage up, you cant hit it no matter how much you spam 1....................

Infact removing guage means you dont need to run out like a moron to store it up, you can just go straight into w/e you had planned =)

Um. You're not running around like a headless chicken.
You're making a calculated effort to avoid conal or circular AOE.
It's incidentally quite easy in this game. I liked that, wanted it expanded on even.

Purposely moving about and not attacking allows stamina to recharge. It was a direct answer to the question "When would you purposely be doing nothing to allow stamina to recharge?" or something to that effect. Sleep & Bind also come to mind.