My friend the "content locust" :(

[Imapooonu]

Oh....if only there was such a thing as "Rare Mats" What would they be used for anyways more useless crafting recipes?

You talking to people about content that has no ryhm or reason to exist in the game as it offers nothing in return. Chocobos? Take an absurdly long time to level for having absolutly no benifit asides the hope that they include something in the future and at that point wouldn't it only make sense to start leveling them when you can actually make use of them? Instead of allready being halfway up the content because you grinded them early?

The game has a lack of long term rewards and is full of time sinks with nothing linked to them.

See this is something I can talk about. Thank you.

It isn't about instant gratification, but obtaining gratification on a relatively long term basis.

Chocobos for instance. We all know the are COMPLETELY underused at the moment. But how long will it take to see content revolving around them? And if that content comes relatively soon, wouldn't it be nice to get a jump on it now? I know it's boring, but wasn't fate grinding an alt? It was for anyone I know of.

Rare materials. My friend enjoys crafting, not only for subclasses (we he had them lol), but for vanities. He made the Vanya Robes for instance.

And just to reiterate one more time (not that I feel this poster is doing this), this is not a discussion about what content is necessarily "play worthy". It is ONLY about trying to understand a perspective and maybe sway someone's opinion through logic (albeit loose logic) and positive reinforcement.

[KaiKatzchen]

@Kai

Thank you as well. And again, I'm sorry if I haven't addressed the well thought out comments ON BOTH SIDES....there's just a lot of stupid comments to weed through right now.

No issues, just wanted you to know I know how you feel, but I've also been in the position of your friends. So I can see both sides.

[Valarian]

First of all, I'm not a content locust, completionist, or anything of the sort. This colors my opinions, but perhaps offers a somewhat unique perspective.

For me, and MMO is about the people. I don't form very many relationships with others, but the few I do form I value. I actually can't get very motivated to jump through quest hoops for more powerful weapons or armor. While I don't find the seasonal event quests to be particularly enjoyable, I do like the unique gear rewards, and you can find me sporting my Lightning costume fairly often, and I like to assume the role of a member of the Guardian Corps by assisting low leveled players in taking down FATEs in the newbie zones.

Anyway, One of the difficulties in content is, like another poster mentioned, that you're playing on rails, and those rails are fairly narrow. Even if you're not picky about what you do, arranging a consistent stream of fun for a group of, say, 5 players is pretty difficult. Especially if some of those players are new. Those players won't remain new for long, but in the mean time it leaves a fairly sour taste in your mouth if you have to leave someone behind to *do* something.

A second, and probably deeper, issue is repetition. Most of ARR relies on memorization. Yoshi P mentions the words "memorize" and "pattern" several times with just about each introduction of something new. The game is made of patterns and you have to diligently follow those patterns to succeed. Once the pattern is solved for, the encounters lose their challenge, or at least their mentally stimulating components. You always know exactly what you're going to get. This is also why people can advertise that you must "Know Fight" in order to play. The magic of the battle is gone. They want their Myth, Drops, or whatever, and that's all. I wonder if these players are even having fun at that point.

What I think the game needs, content wise, is more to do that can lead to the unexpected, or at least is not completely telegraphed after the first success. How about a dungeon where you don't know what the boss will be? Or even what the rooms will look like? Imagine a randomly generated cave complex with who knows what lurking inside. You don't know which way you have to go, or where every treasure chest is located. Guard some of these chests with powerful bosses, and allow them to be skipped. Do you choose to fight the boss and get the lewts? Or do you pass by? Maybe you can't defeat this one, but all is not lost, and maybe you learned something about how this boss operates for future reference. The important thing, though, is that you had a choice. You controlled your destiny and direction, even if in a relatively minor way.

Completely separate is a lack if interdependence. My FC is very friendly and very close, comparatively speaking, and we struggle to think of anything we can do for each other anymore. We used to make each other tools and gear all the time as we leveled up, but now we're all 50 and our opportunities are pretty thin. We satisfy our kindness more often than not by helping people who are outside of the FC when they're troubled, but even finding these players is a rare treat.

Getting to level 50 as a crafter is so easy it's almost trivial, and a lot of players who are waiting on queues have nothing better to do with their time than level every craft in existence, even if they don't enjoy that. What's even worse is that leveling some crafts (carpenter, weaver) is almost required to craft at all. Lack of desirable goods combined with a player base that can already do everything not only equals a dead market, but limits even free exchanges between friendly players. I think players need more opportunity to pursue the things they like. DDs (or DPS, if you prefer) especially need an activity that they can engage in that they enjoy that isn't reliant on queues, though everyone could benefit from some more accessible content. Treasure maps are excellent, but a limited resource, and I'd like to see more content like this where exacting party composition is not as much of an issue and people are free to pitch in just because they feel like it.

[Moheeheeko]

I guess my FC must be a rarity.

We have a solid group of like 30 or so regulars, none of which have even smelled turn 5 yet. We have 1 person close to i90, but only because she has played that one job since launch, she is now enjoying other jobs while we wait for coil. We have lost only 1 friend due to lack of something, and that was our member who leveled every single craft to 50 before her main job.

So safe to say we will have turn 5 on farm right about when 2.2 and more new content drops.

[Mug]

I just wish they would give us more of an incentive to do "boring" tasks that have no use in the game at the moment. Give us a roadmap. Show us videos/screenshots/artwork of things you have planned. Or even developer's blogs/videos that give us exclusive behind the scenes info. I realise we already have a developer's blog, but it's incredibly lacking.

[TrystWildkey]

It is ONLY about trying to understand a perspective and maybe sway someone's opinion through logic (albeit loose logic) and positive reinforcement.

I'll bite. I'm neither a completionist, perfectionist, nor an end-gamer. I'm more on the casual side, but not really fitting in to what that label implies.

I don't mind a grind as long as there is a purpose to it, and I don't mind putting forth effort to get something.

I have not burned through all of the content available.

I did not level my crafting through leves (with the exception of Culinarian, but I only leveled that one for Steady Hand 2).

I did not Fate zerg my pld to 50. Mnk was the only 50 I had from 1.0 and I haven't played it. I leveled Brd just because I wanted the outfit. I've tried every class to at least 15.

I do not want the game to be made easier. (I'm really against nerfing Coil this early on in the game's life-cycle.)

I do not want everything handed to me.

I do not want instant gratification.

I am not dissatisfied with a 'lack of content.'

I am not an MMO hopper.

I played FFXI for about 7 years and only stopped when the Adoulin expansion came out. (That expansion introduced item levels) I was hoping to make XIV my next 7 year or longer game.

I am dissatisfied with the overall re-design of the game and the structure on which it is based.

There is no way to even slightly personalize your job/class. They've removed the flexibility of classes actually being viable for certain content. There is no strategy other than pattern memorization to ANY fight with the way they set up the new combat system. There is no horizontal progression. There is a single skill rotation and gear setup for every job, and no variation is tolerated. There is NO content for crafters (by design), and the only content for gatherers is the Treasure Map system.

The only thing this game offers is a series of instanced, level-capped dungeon runs with the goal being to collect better gear, gear that completely invalidates everything you did before. I've never played games with the desire to just run raid after raid to get bigger and better shinies. From what we've heard about the intended updates, this is not going to change, ever.

If I wanted to play a First Person Shooter, I would. I wanted an MMO with depth, but what they gave me was an FPS cleverly disguised as an MMORPG.

Some suggestions I can think of that may bring back some interest, at least for people like me.

For level 50 dungeons that have medium iLevel requirements, sync everyone down to that iLevel to keep the challenge alive. I didn't want to be carried through AK by 3 people that had relics or relic+1, I wanted to learn it. But, there's no hope of learning the dungeon when everyone has better gear and just facerolls the damn thing. Strategy was useless, and non-existent, and I felt really horrible after our 'win.'

Make crafters useful again. Let me repair my husband's gear again. Let us craft things that are on par with dungeon drops, or make dungeons drop crafting items instead of gear all the time. Give us interesting things to do; bringing back some form of Hamlet would be fan-freaking-tastic. It doesn't have to be the same, but, content that combines disciples of war/magic and land/hand would be fun, interesting, different and keep me logged in. They've created such a robust crafting system, and they just let it rot like a pretty bowl of fruit on their coffee table.

Bring back some open world dungeons for exploration. And/or let us go into lower level dungeons without the level cap for funsies. The timer on dungeons really bothers me too, who needs an additional level of stress added to a new dungeon run. (I understand why it's there, to prevent instance servers from being clogged up, but there has to be a way to extend it.) They've built this huge world that they're so proud of, but it's just a giant lobby.

Unfortunately, it feels to me that with the way they designed the combat and attribute system, they've left no room for horizontal progression. They've completely cut out classes as a viable option, and have given us no room to personalize things or try out different play styles. In trying to make the game accessible to everyone, they've made it kinda bland.

The only reason I am still subscribed is because I upped my sub 1 day before they released the housing prices. If I had waited ONE DAY, I would have canceled when I saw that atrocity.

1.23 was fantastic, and I'd like to think that the same dev team that gave us that, could make this game so much better than it currently is. Unfortunately, as the game is now, it's just not that interesting to me. And that's not referring to the content specifically, it's more about their whole design philosophy.

[Imapooonu]

Man, thank you all so much

I am really looking forward to this conversation tonight when I have a little more time. Trying to make some amateur head shrink analysis of my friend was the goal all along lol! j/k

Not that it would work if he was here, he's kind of a genius

But seriously, thanks for getting this back on track. Much appreciated.

[Eldryan]

This is probably my last post on this forum as my sub is finally coming to an end soon. I bought a 6 months subscription in advance at launch, but haven't really touched the game much in the past 2 months.

It's not your friend's fault, or any player's fault if they find themselves feeling this way. It's the symptom of a vertical progression format, there is virtually no reason to visit any of the lower tier activities that yield equipment inferior to what you have. I know people hate it when someone brings up FFXI, but that game did do some stuff right, and their gear system was much more horizontal than this game (pre-abyssea anyways, I stopped playing just as they started those expansion). Take paladin gear in XI for example, you had a set that boosted defense and vitality, another that boosted acc and attack power, and another set that increased speed and reduced casting time. Players would take part in the various type of activities to collect all those pieces because they yielded different benefit, even though they were all considered endgame gear; and they would swap gear set to match what they needed for that particular battle, this applied to basically every job in XI. In XIV's vertical progression format, you get a BiS gear that makes it pointless to bother collecting anything else beyond that point, and just have to wait for the new BiS piece in a future update, leaving you bored with nothing to do in between.

[Orophin]

Compared to other MMOs (and despite how adamantly a few people whine on this forum), FFXIV is extremely lenient with how it limits your progression. So unlike other games where you simply get bored because it's too time consuming to get anywhere else, FFXIV just opts to give at a fair pace until it has nothing left to give but Coil runs.

I think this is the most fair statement concerning FFXIV's content. This game just isn't sustainable for people who can throw themselves at it for several hours a day. When they finally have it farmed out for the 1 of 9 jobs they're interested in playing, in their eyes there's just nothing left for them to do.

I'm one of these "Completionist" types too as in I want to experience all of the content the game has to offer. I like battling, crafting and gathering, but I realize not everyone shares the same interests in the things I do, so naturally they're going to find themselves without things to do much quicker than I am.

SE should tie content together to make it last for years, not purposely design it to be thrown away every 3 months.

It technically will have taken them 7 months to have negated the highest end content. (Coil) Crystal Tower was put in as an afterthought when it should have been in at launch, and Ex Primals was horizontal progress at best. How fast they invalidate what you can get from Turns 6-9 will probably set the precedent for this game in terms of how fast they churn out content to replace the former. (by my estimations, every 6 months)

Also, Yoshi-P has touted this game for "very casual" players, meaning the people he intended this game to be for will be those who are just finishing all relevant content by the time new stuff is being introduced, at the very best. I'm sure myself along with many other people would prefer how content is being handled now, opposed to FFXI where it would maybe take several months just to get even ONE item out of a complete set due to RNG and having to roll against 6 other people every time. I feel like I'm accomplishing something every week I raid in this game, opposed to doing Dynamis for 6 months in FFXI and having nothing to show for it because the item I wanted never dropped or I would always lose the roll to someone else.

[Thunderz]

Really OP keep your opinion to yourself

People play for different reasons and if they are unhappy with the current state of their gameplay then it is a problem for them

All your suggestions are bad as well

I love how ppl line up to defend a company