Is Inner Beast Duration To Short ? Vote

[OmegaSinX]

It seems the general consensus is Inner Beast would Be More Reliable If:

-It were off GCD
-Wasn't Limited to Hitting Something

What if Inner Beast Was Tweak to Be like......:

Inner Beast ~Cast: Instant, Recast: 0 (Can only be executed when Infuriated.)

You become Enraged and Feel the Adrenaline Rush Running through your body, damage recieved will be reduced by 20% for the next 6secs.
Addition Effect:If your within range, You will strike the enemy with a devastating blow with a potency of 300.
Ignoring damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.

This is exactly how it is in game now except it will be off GCD and you can still at least get the 20% DR even if theres nothing to hit .

Would also be cool if you gain a red aura during the 6secs.

[Kitru]

Addition Effect:If your within range, You will strike the enemy with a devastating blow with a potency of 300.
Ignoring damage penalty inflicted by Defiance.

The damage would need to be reduced to 150 potency instead of 300 to prevent it from increasing the average potency per GCD, and you forgot about the self heal (would need to be doubled to maintain the same amount of self healing).

The other issue would be as to how the tweaked Inner Beast chooses the target. It couldn't be an AoE because that would just be nuts. The easiest implementation would probably have it target a single random target within 4y, but that would create some problems whenever you've got multiple nearby targets but want to hit one and ignore the other (Titan EX with the bombs when you're tanking Titan). The optimal solution would probably be for it to target whichever enemy you have targeted and hit a random target within range (or no target at all) when you either don't have a viable target, but I'm not sure how programmatically viable that would be since there isn't really anything like that in game at the moment.

[OmegaSinX]

The damage would need to be reduced to 150 potency instead of 300 to prevent it from increasing the average potency per GCD, and you forgot about the self heal (would need to be doubled to maintain the same amount of self healing).

The other issue would be as to how the tweaked Inner Beast chooses the target. It couldn't be an AoE because that would just be nuts. The easiest implementation would probably have it target a single random target within 4y, but that would create some problems whenever you've got multiple nearby targets but want to hit one and ignore the other (Titan EX with the bombs when you're tanking Titan). The optimal solution would probably be for it to target whichever enemy you have targeted and hit a random target within range (or no target at all) when you either don't have a viable target, but I'm not sure how programmatically viable that would be since there isn't really anything like that in game at the moment.

Hmmm dont think thats a good idea, Inner Beast is our signature move and if the potency was reduced to 150 more people would prolly use Steel Cyclone over Inner Beast. We dont want that. I think we should keep the heal and potency the same but have a 2.5 - 5sec reuse CD. Similiar to how Energy Drain/Fester works with SMN.

As for your second point, I think it could be tweak to work similiar to Vengeance but instead of hitting everything that hits you back, it could counter attack (300 Potency) on the first target that hits you within that 6 secs. And if there is nothing to hit you still get 20% DR.

[Kitru]

Hmmm dont think thats a good idea

It's called math. Having it stay 300 potency while being taken off of the GCD would make it *incredibly* strong because that potency is in addition to whatever was done in the GCD itself. Even if the potency were reduced to 150, people still wouldn't use Steel Cyclone over it because Steel Cyclone would still be on the GCD whereas Inner Beast wouldn't be. Keeping it at 300 potency, you'd be, effectively, increasing the potency you get from the IB GCD from 400 potency (300 / .75) to ~610. It's also increasing damage because IB wouldn't be consuming a GCD, which means that you'd be able to use it every 17.5-20 seconds instead of every 20-22.5 seconds.

For Inner Beast to be taken off the GCD without it being a direct increase to WAR damage (and increasing burst damage substantially on top of that), the potency would *need* to be taken down. If you honestly think that people would use Steel Cyclone over it, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

[whiskeybravo]

You wouldn't use Cyclone over IB in Kitru's example, SC has no damage reduction.

I wonder, though, if IB went to oGCD, would it have the same animation delays as other oGCD abilities? Right now it feels pretty reliable, not so with Holmgang, Hallowed, Benediction type oh-snap buttons.

[OmegaSinX]

For Inner Beast to be taken off the GCD without it being a direct increase to WAR damage (and increasing burst damage substantially on top of that), the potency would *need* to be taken down.

Making Inner Beast off-gcd wouldnt be game breaking and would not make WAR's DPS King of the hill. Espcially when you consider:

1. WAR comes in Dead last in having Off-GCD attacks (Next to WHM). As it is in game today, Warrior has only 1 exclusive Off GCD attack, Brutal Swing with a depressing 50 potency. Sure we have Mercy Stroke with a 200 potency, But thats very situational & is shared with PLD, MNK, DRG. At least PLD has Spirit Within (300 Potency) & Circle of Scorn (100 Potency +30 potency DoT), Both of these can be used every 25-30sec with no limitation of needed wrath stacks + they can use Mercy Stroke too.

2. To even get stacks to use Inner beast, you have to be in Defiance in the first place. This factor alone destroys any hope Warriors had of being a great DPS Tank or even coming close to a True DPS, DPS. Its laughable to think WARs DPS in defiance will come close to SMN with Festers, DRG with Jumps, MNKs with Grease Lightning, and BLM with astral fire Flares. You focus on the potency but you forgot to account for alot of other things like Gear, Job Stats & Traits, and how many off GCD attacks other classes have compared to WAR. When it comes to DPS, WAR dps is near the bottom of the list.


3. And lastly Mathimatically you might be able to use Inner Beast every 20 secs, but we all know that is not the case in real life, especially in boss fights. Sure, you can spam it and your dps will go up, but you will be hurting yourself in the long run when you really need it for the mitigation. And then what will you say ? "I'm Dead, but at least i hit him really hard.... No, Your primary focus isstaying alive, not dps, the added dps would just be a bonus. A Smart WAR will not spam Inner Beast unless its for killing trash. A Smart WAR will save it for right before a big boss hit. Secondly, A 20sec Inner beast is only possible in a fight that requires no movements and no debuffs (slow, paralyze, etc) which are becoming less and less as SE becomes more and more creative with Boss fight Dynamics. And if you are able to pull off 20 Sec Inner Beasts every single time while dodging fight dynamics, Then Good job, 20sec Inner Beast is a fitting reward for your great play.

Your response Sounds like a knee jerk response,which is strickly your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I dont think anyone likes your idea and doesnt want to see Inner Beast Nerfed to 150 Potency. It is our signature move and should be strong.

[Avenol]

Honestly, as an active mitigation tool...I would lik to see it something like:

Inner Beast: 4 second duration, takes 3 of 5 Wrath stacks, mitigates 30pct of damage. Remove the healing aspect, and place on it an enmity generation. That would make it perfect imho.

It would be more readily available for use when you need it, but you still have to balence keeping up your wrath stacks and mitigation buff with everything else you can do...cool downs, overpowers etc, the things that do not generate wrath will give you less mitigation over time. I would probably also give Tomahawk a +1 wrath too, so a hawk and the first threat rotation would be enough to start up your inner beast.

But that's just me, I feel that right now beast has the ability to really make this calls a great active mitigation class, which is fun in other games, but it's just not there right now. It needs to mitigate more, but last less, and be able to be cast more often to make it perfect.

[Kitru]

1. WAR comes in Dead last in having Off-GCD attacks (Next to WHM).

Which has absolutely nothing to do with what is being discussed. It doesn't matter how many off-GCD attacks a class has because off-GCD attacks are not the entirety of a class's performance. WAR manages virtually all of its damage without any off-GCD attacks. PLD gets slightly more than 1/6th of its damage from off-GCD attacks. It doesn't make PLD better than WAR; in fact, WAR still does more damage than PLD even though PLD has more off-GCD attacks that also happen to deal more damage than the one off-GCD attack that WAR has (250 and ~300 potency each).

Also, you're forgetting BLM, which has *no* attacks that are off of the GCD. Depending upon how you intepret Bane, SCH is tied with WAR at only having 1.

2. To even get stacks to use Inner beast, you have to be in Defiance in the first place. This factor alone destroys any hope Warriors had of being a great DPS Tank

Except that WAR *already* has very impressive damage. It doesn't need to approach the DPS of a true DPS in order to have DPS that is too high for its given role. WAR is already breaching that point if you're playing it properly. I often do upwards of 60-75% of a DPS's damage as a WAR, which, given that a tank is supposed to deal roughly 50% of the damage of a DPS, is outrageously high. WAR damage doesn't *need* to be buffed. Hell, it *shouldn't* be buffed at all because it's plenty high.

Your response Sounds like a knee jerk response,which is strickly your opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I dont think anyone likes your idea and doesnt want to see Inner Beast Nerfed to 150 Potency. It is our signature move and should be strong.

Except it's not being nerfed. You assume that it's being nerfed because you're oblivious enough to think that any reduction in potency is a nerf. The only change that my suggestion (which, keep in mind, I'm don't even think is needed; I'm perfectly happy with IB being on the GCD and only wish it last an extra 1-2 seconds) would cause is taking it off of the GCD. The average damage would remain exactly the same.

If IB were *not* reduced in potency while being taken off the GCD, you're increasing average potency per GCD. There's absolutely no question about that.

As to it being a knee-jerk response that no one else agrees with, if you go back and actually read the discussion instead of skimming it, ignoring it, or only reading the last 2 comments before you post, you'll see that several other people shared the same concern when the idea of it being taken off-GCD was brought up and that I actually did the math to explain how it could be taken off GCD without affecting average potency per GCD appreciably. I actually put forth thought concerning my answer and made sure it was consistent with existing balance concerns and accounted for the consequences of changing it.

It wasn't knee jerk and there are plenty of people that agree with me. The fact that you're oblivious to that just cements my opinion that you've got no idea what balance actually is. You honestly believed that reducing the potency to 150 while taking it off of the GCD would cause people to use Steel Cyclone instead. That's enough of a demonstration of your lack of understanding about the subject.

P.S. Your spelling is terrible. They're spelled "mathematically" and "strictly". Most browsers have integrated spellcheckers that I suggest you use.

[Megido]

Increasing the duration would make it pretty overpowered when used back to back with Infuriate.
Decreasing the damage reduction would be a nerf.
Off-GCD could be fun but it shouldnt be needed unless you dont know the boss well enough. If you dont have stacks for every titan em mountainbuster you're doing it wrong (protip: dont need to always finish every combo chain). IB doesnt work during cast bars/animations anyway so i dont see much of a need for this. Theres no point in being able to react quickly, you have to know its coming. So, be a second faster in knowing.

[OmegaSinX]

As to it being a knee-jerk response that no one else agrees with, if you go back and actually read the discussion instead of skimming it, ignoring it.

It's funny you accuse me of not reading/ignoring your comments and turn around and do the same thing yourself. If you read my comment you would see that I didnt disagree with your point that it will increase WAR damage during that GCD and the point I was trying to make is that Good players use Inner Beast for its DR so its not like were going to spam it to incease DPS. And regardless if it increase WAR's damage per GCD, it still wouldnt be enough to make WAR OP like you were implying. And your belief of that tank DPS is suppose to do less than 50% of true DPS is just another opinion. When I use to play WoW, I was almost always TOP DPS as a Warrior Tank.

P.S. Your spelling is terrible. They're spelled "mathematically" and "strictly". Most browsers have integrated spellcheckers that I suggest you use.

Typical Kitru LMAO. Attacking anyone who doesnt agree with her/him. I could have said 99.9% facts and you would still have a snarky counter attack as long as I disagree. Spell checking people on the internet. smh. Someone give this guy a medal.

Im sorry, I thought I was making a entry on a forum, not writing a critically acclaimed novel. I'll make sure to hire a editor ASAP.