Full i90 PLD should not get gibbed by Twintania from full HP.

[Maelwys]

Foresight/Bulwark do not mitigate DS, they mitigate the attacks after DS.

Bulwark provides a sizable chance to get an additional 20/27% mitigation (depending on which shield you have equipped) to kick in for the DS itself. Death Sentences are perfectly parryable and blockable, with the Onion shield and Bulwark the chances are VERY high that you're going to get a bit of extra mitigation kicking in for it. The reason Convalescence is there is because the extra mitigation is not quite guaranteed, so in the event of you taking full damage from it at least you'll be helping to offset the healing debuff.

The reason why you throw up Awareness and Foresight at the same time is to help with followup autoattacks (the ones which potentially kill you before heals kick in).

And you'll always have Hallowed Ground to fall back on in an emergency.

BLOODBATH!? Dunno if serious or not...

The trickle it gives you is very unlikely to save you, but it IS unaffected by healing debuffs which makes it a little more handy immediately after a Death Sentence when the WHM is "neutered" - particularly if FoF is up and you're weaving in SW and CoS.

You won't get as much use out of it as you would a proper mitigation cooldown or a well-timed stoneskin, but you might as well remember that it's there and use it on cooldown.

Everyone knows the rotation for DS, no reason to even post it honestly.

There are a number of "rotations" for DS floating around out there. And it's rare to see decent ones posted in the same place. It's particularly worth noting that virus's uptime got hit by the patch, but the effectiveness did not - it's basically another Cooldown once every 3 (with one caster) or 2 (with two casters) Death Sentences... so it's still quite possible to mix in a rotation that allows a single PLD to survive everything. It's more straightforward with a WAR, as you can see from the last part of my previous post, but still perfectly doable with a PLD.

Basically what I'm getting at is that you can't always just rely on the healers to bail you out - sensible rotation of mitigation cooldowns is also key in the fight.
If you're getting gibbed from 100% HP, it's more likely due to something you're doing wrong, rather than the Healer.

Maybe you forgot 18% stoneskin on 7k hp vs 8700? And 25% lustrate.

Warrior simply scales better with WHM and SCH. And over 10k HP?

You're looking at the basic ability descriptions and getting it wrong when it comes to how it actually performs in the game.

The math proves that Warrior Defiance basically equals Paladin Shield Oath for mitigation purposes.
(There is actually a VERY SLIGHT edge in healing received for the Paladin which we assume is meant to be offset by Inner Beast and WAR's very slightly higher base HP)

Because there are no attacks out there that ignore Damage Resistance, everything about the Warrior's 25% higher HP pool is completely negated by the 20% damage resistance that is attached to Shield Oath.

Any time a WAR receives damage, their HP bar drops by exactly the same percentage as a PLD.
If a WAR gets healed, they receive more healing than a PLD would; but the PLD gets more than a WAR out of every point of HP restored.
(this is where the "slight edge" in healing comes from - over time it's +2.5% effective HP in terms of healing in favour of the PLD).

If a WAR gets a HP buff (Stoneskin or Aldo) this is STILL in effect. They can take exactly the same amount of punishment as a PLD can before that shield drops, because the PLD's damage resistance kicks in before the shield starts to get eaten away at. In the same way, stacking a HP buff like Thrill of Battle is exactly the same as stacking a Resistance buff like Rampart - both give you more "effective HP".

The main things WAR bring to the table are Storm's Path and their ability to use Inner Beast every ~23 seconds - they're better at taking regular huge single spike damage hits than Paladins but worse for mitigating large amounts of incoming damage over time. I'd rather have a WAR main tank for Turn 5 and a PLD main tank for EM Ifrit, for example... but either one is perfectly capable at both.

Can you not have the damage reduction up before DS, and still have 5 stacks waiting for the heal? I thought you could.

OK, now I'm convinced you're just trolling.
Saving 5 stacks for heals? You're talking about a mechanic that is months out of date...

[Contemporary]

To people like this, I just say two words.

"Stay bad."

[Avalon_Albrook]

Just tanked TT today, easily got to snakes. /shrug No problems, guess it was the bad heals.

Yeeeeah, you dying to death sentences before had nothing to do with my post.

[Remn]

Foresight/Bulwark do not mitigate DS, they mitigate the attacks after DS. PLD have 2 cd to mitigate DS, wherein lies our problem, because we have to rely on healers more than WAR does.

BLOODBATH!? Dunno if serious or not...

Everyone knows the rotation for DS, no reason to even post it honestly.

Basically this guy has it right:





Seriously.

I use Onion shield and i Block DS a brunch of time, with Bulwak up i can also always got a block on DS....
BTW, fire ball (on phase 2) can be parry as well...

[Wizhard]

I use Onion shield and i Block DS a brunch of time, with Bulwak up i can also always got a block on DS....
BTW, fire ball (on phase 2) can be parry as well...

Anecdotally, i got one-shot recently with only bulwark up, DS, plummet, autohit. Onion shield, 600 parry, bulwark up, nothing got blocked or parried. So yeah it CAN happen even though its rare.

[Gangaloo]

As a PLD you cannot mitigate every DS after you have used all of them. Honestly only 3 cds even mitigate DS for PLD, rampart, sentinel, and convalescence. (Not taking into consideration saving HG for snakes)

(I solo tank T5)

I see why you're having trouble and getting 1 shot by DS now... lol.

Also, if your Warrior friend isn't solo tanking TT and has a PLD keeping up rage of Halone, he has a mitigation advantage. As a solo tank, you're missing out on Storm's Path.

Regardless, what I quoted you on there makes your whole whining rant invalid.

Anecdotally, i got one-shot recently with only bulwark up, DS, plummet, autohit. Onion shield, 600 parry, bulwark up, nothing got blocked or parried. So yeah it CAN happen even though its rare.

These 1 shot stories sound mostly like healers not knowing how to heal on TT. If they time it properly, they can get off a full heal right as DS lands and avoid the healing debuff all together. So your WHM can wind up a Cure II and land it right as you take damage but not have it affected by the healing debuff. If both your healers do this, between 2 unmitigated heals and 1 lustrate, there's no way you should go down with that combo.

[Nathan061111]

@Pesmergia 3 full pages of people posting detailed mathematics, tips and strategies and you still insist on arguing your point though you have no support from any other source and you continue to blame everyone but yourself. SE's fault, healer's fault, other warrior's fault dude its your fault get over it and take some responsibility.

[Exstal]

Our clear team tried Warrior tank once. It's very difficult to keep him alive (maybe because I was not amazingly geared at the time) but he did not take hits well. I still hate warrior because of it.

[Anuri]

Our clear team tried Warrior tank once. It's very difficult to keep him alive (maybe because I was not amazingly geared at the time) but he did not take hits well. I still hate warrior because of it.

str warriors could mt twin in patch 2.0 and since new inner beast, there is "not much" of a difference in patch 2.1

20% mitigration(IB) and 20% higher incoming heals, can be up for every DS. and all that without using one real defensive cooldown.

[Wizhard]

These 1 shot stories sound mostly like healers not knowing how to heal on TT. If they time it properly, they can get off a full heal right as DS lands and avoid the healing debuff all together. So your WHM can wind up a Cure II and land it right as you take damage but not have it affected by the healing debuff. If both your healers do this, between 2 unmitigated heals and 1 lustrate, there's no way you should go down with that combo.

Actually they do and we killed twin 5 times already. But sometimes she can go "NOPE" and oneshot you, its just very rare. Usually happens if we dont push her enough from last conflag and she does DSplummetauto right before the necklace drop with me only having bulwark to mitigate.