PLD emnity VS. Medica spam.

[misterdapi]

Definitely not a good tank player... Wanna know how to improve and be better? Always blame yourself when you lose hate, and ask what can you do to improve that? What can be adjust on your skill routine? What about the timing of cool downs? Before the adds appear should I make sure my OGCD and buff are up? So and so. Never blame the healer for stealing hate, only blame them if they are not keeping you alive.

This This This

[Aria_Stars]

If you have problems with getting hate on ruda ex sisters due to whm, tell them to get everyone topped off before they pop and get stoneskins on the tanks. that's what I do as whm, and I never have issues. having medica2 or regen up can be bad, though sometimes sisters pop right after a friction when we're mid-cast medica1 so there's not much we can do about that (unless healers spread out before the last friction).

[abzoluut]

Im not sure what the OP is trying to say. So the problem here is when a tank engages a boss? I have yet to see a WHM or SCH pre-cast medica II or succor or whatever ability they have.

If you are trying to inform healers, the healer forum would be a better spot. It seems more like a healer problem, not knowing that casting before the tank engages is bad news. It also amazes me if for example a WHM would have medica II up before the pull. Easily solvable: "hey whm, if we have medica II before the pull, you will get aggro".. Done deal.

[Ooshima]

Im not sure what the OP is trying to say. So the problem here is when a tank engages a boss? I have yet to see a WHM or SCH pre-cast medica II or succor or whatever ability they have.

It's not common but I did seen quite a few times before that healers casted regen/medica 2 on the tank/party before engaging and ended up the mobs/boss walloping the healer.

[Kitru]

It's not common but I did seen quite a few times before that healers casted regen/medica 2 on the tank/party before engaging and ended up the mobs/boss walloping the healer.

It's common practice in other MMOs to HoT up people before the pull because overhealing (which most pre-combat HoTs end up being) doesn't generate enmity; it doesn't work like that in ARR because overhealing *does* generate enmity in this game. While leveling or running low level content, I've run with plenty of healers that either spam Cure or throw out heals as soon as you've taken *any* damage (I ran with one healer that was throwing out 400-500 Cure whenever I'd taken all of 50 damage) because mp isn't really an issue and they think that they're not generating enmity.

Also, precasting Succor is a *good* thing because only the heal generates enmity; the shield (which is what you get with the precast) doesn't generate any enmity at all, even when it's consumed, which is just one of the reasons why SCHs are so friggin' amazing at aggro management.

Medica II spam isn't as bad as it used to be since they cut the HoT potency in half. The only real issue I've seen is that, now that the duration is 30 seconds, you're much more likely to see the tail end of a Medica II right when adds spawn.

[Kinseykinz]

The whole point of this is to better educate WHMs since they seem unaware that they also produce a metric ton of enmity.

If this is supposedly true, then why'd you post it in the TANK forums and not the Healers? But more to the point. Did it ever occur to you to just nicely ask the WHM to refrain from casting even Regen on you until you have established hate? Or ask them not to cast a Party AoE heal until the party actually takes damage?

Most healers (esp ones able/geared to do EX primals) aren't making these mistakes. Most healers don't cast Medica II at the beginning of a pull...and even a Regen thrown on the tank after a Shield lob on a Boss/tank has pulled boss into position isn't enough to actually pull hate.


Also, most Healers know how hate works/have little reason to cast a spell the first 10-15 seconds of the battle. DD's however....I have seen them go crazy, unloading every attack they have in their arsenal while the tank is still positioning the mob. (which incidentally usually =healers dropping big AoE cures near the beginning of the battle because now tank AND DD's are eating it)

So, unless every WHM you encounter is now suddenly casting Medica II at the very beginning of a battle, I think you can just assume this was one mis-informed WHM you could have nicely asked to hold back instead of making it sound like all WHM's have gone nuts.

[OPneedNerfs]

Definitely not a good tank player... Wanna know how to improve and be better? Always blame yourself when you lose hate, and ask what can you do to improve that? What can be adjust on your skill routine? What about the timing of cool downs? Before the adds appear should I make sure my OGCD and buff are up? So and so. Never blame the healer for stealing hate, only blame them if they are not keeping you alive.

So you're saying a tank can out-aggro a medica spamming whm? I'm pretty sure anyone who's done turn2 enrage method would disagree.

[Ooshima]

It's common practice in other MMOs to HoT up people before the pull because overhealing (which most pre-combat HoTs end up being) doesn't generate enmity; it doesn't work like that in ARR because overhealing *does* generate enmity in this game.

That's interesting, since this is my first MMO

[Maelwys]

So you're saying a tank can out-aggro a medica spamming whm? I'm pretty sure anyone who's done turn2 enrage method would disagree.

In their enmity stance, against a single target? Yup.
Especially since the enmity changes in the 2.1 patch.

The tank needs to have a reasonable level of damage output so that the enmity combo's multiplier has something to work off, but that's usually not much of a problem.
The main problem used to be Medica 2's HoT, and that's been reduced pretty drastically.

I'm sure someone will throw detailed math at you if you want it, but IIRC it's basically ~3.2k possible Hate Potency (WHM) now compared to ~4.5k possible Hate Potency (Tank) in the space of 3 GCDs (not counting Divine Seal, Shroud or any of the Tank's off-GCD abilities or DPS buffs)

[TheGlow]

The only time I lose aggro is turn 2 enrage, which is trivial, and sometimes turn4 as MT with the first batch of clock works.
Once i had the dps realize to relax just a little, as they should save cooldowns for the first dread, it was much simpler.