Results 1 to 10 of 216

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player
    dron13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Ray Snowheart
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    About stone skin and diffeence between PLD and WAR:

    Let's say we have equal HP before any buff: 4000
    And we have boss which attacks for 1000 damage on you.

    PLD: Shield Oath gives 20% damage reduction. So 1000 damage -> 800 damage. So he will die after 5 attacks (5*800 = 4000).

    WAR: Defiance gives +25% HP. So damage remains 1000, but you'll have 4000*1.25=5000 HP. So he will die after 5 attacks (5*1000 = 5000)

    Any difference? No.


    Let's consider healers. Let's say they'll heal you without buffs for 1000 HP.

    PLD: Healer will heal you for full HP from zero in 4 skills (4*1000 = 4000 HP).
    WAR: Will have +20% for healing effects. So The healer will heal you for 1000*1.2=1200 HP. Considering that you have 5000 HP, healer will heal you for 4*1200=4800 HP, that means a slight HP loss in same heals to regain your HP. We already seen that damage taken will make both PLD and WAR dead at the same time with only Shield Oath/Defiance, so healers will heal PLD better overall.

    Now, about Stoneskin and other buffs based on HP percentage:
    As PLD normal SS will give you 10% shield = 400 your HP.
    As WAR - 10% shield = 500 your HP.
    BUT as PLD you'll have Shield Oath 20% damage reduction, so when WAR takes that 500 damage, PLD takes 500*0.8=400 damage. So it's same reduction for every skill in this game. Shield Oath and Defiance gives you EQUAL amount of EHP, as shown above.

    There are many other moments like:
    - PLD shield blocks
    - WAR self-heals
    etc.

    But when you say that WAR can use Inner Beast each 2.5 seconds - then nope. You need 5 stacks of wraith. They are gained via your regular skills each ~20 seconds and insta-5 stacks each 60 seconds. So you'll have ~4 IB each 60 seconds.

    BTW, you can use Stone Skin on your self when you're under attack, too. While healer is healing you, you can use SS - he has no time to use SS.
    (11)

  2. #2
    Player
    Kuwagami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    4,330
    Character
    Kuwagami Tarynke
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 78
    Quote Originally Posted by dron13 View Post
    About stone skin and diffeence between PLD and WAR:

    Let's say we have equal HP before any buff: 4000
    And we have boss which attacks for 1000 damage on you.

    PLD: Shield Oath gives 20% damage reduction. So 1000 damage -> 800 damage. So he will die after 5 attacks (5*800 = 4000).

    WAR: Defiance gives +25% HP. So damage remains 1000, but you'll have 4000*1.25=5000 HP. So he will die after 5 attacks (5*1000 = 5000)

    Any difference? No.


    Let's consider healers. Let's say they'll heal you without buffs for 1000 HP.

    PLD: Healer will heal you for full HP from zero in 4 skills (4*1000 = 4000 HP).
    WAR: Will have +20% for healing effects. So The healer will heal you for 1000*1.2=1200 HP. Considering that you have 5000 HP, healer will heal you for 4*1200=4800 HP, that means a slight HP loss in same heals to regain your HP. We already seen that damage taken will make both PLD and WAR dead at the same time with only Shield Oath/Defiance, so healers will heal PLD better overall.

    Now, about Stoneskin and other buffs based on HP percentage:
    As PLD normal SS will give you 10% shield = 400 your HP.
    As WAR - 10% shield = 500 your HP.
    BUT as PLD you'll have Shield Oath 20% damage reduction, so when WAR takes that 500 damage, PLD takes 500*0.8=400 damage. So it's same reduction for every skill in this game. Shield Oath and Defiance gives you EQUAL amount of EHP, as shown above.

    There are many other moments like:
    - PLD shield blocks
    - WAR self-heals
    etc.

    But when you say that WAR can use Inner Beast each 2.5 seconds - then nope. You need 5 stacks of wraith. They are gained via your regular skills each ~20 seconds and insta-5 stacks each 60 seconds. So you'll have ~4 IB each 60 seconds.

    BTW, you can use Stone Skin on your self when you're under attack, too. While healer is healing you, you can use SS - he has no time to use SS.
    this. People should do math before complaining about inexistant problems. Paladins are still "better" tanks than warriors in terms of pure eHP and mitigation. We compensate through self heals and better damage. the only way we can totally outclass a pally is when we use ToB, which lasts 20 seconds for 120 secs CD. Yay, we'll have a "nullified by SS" DS every 2 of them, while pallies have 3 or 4 CD to rotate to avoid insta death (which is also greatly helped thx to the infirmity debuff : 30 sec bonus to CD before next switch)
    (3)

  3. #3
    Player
    Illya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    629
    Character
    Illyasviel Einzbern
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagami View Post
    this. People should do math before complaining about inexistant problems. Paladins are still "better" tanks than warriors in terms of pure eHP and mitigation. We compensate through self heals and better damage. the only way we can totally outclass a pally is when we use ToB, which lasts 20 seconds for 120 secs CD. Yay, we'll have a "nullified by SS" DS every 2 of them, while pallies have 3 or 4 CD to rotate to avoid insta death (which is also greatly helped thx to the infirmity debuff : 30 sec bonus to CD before next switch)
    PLD also has Hallowed Ground, there is nothing WAR has which is even remotely close.

    The real reason a lot of WAR are MT on Twin now is because the PLD can stun Dreadknights every 2.5 seconds. WAR can't do that either.

    Any PLD who thinks that WAR has it easy now after 2.1 literally does not know what he is talking about. I love playing my WAR but I have no illusions about my class. After all I have a PLD too and I still play it though my WAR is used for EX Primals and Coil.
    (1)
    Last edited by Illya; 02-13-2014 at 07:03 AM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Pesmergia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    160
    Character
    Pesmergia Unknown
    World
    Behemoth
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by dron13 View Post
    About stone skin and diffeence between PLD and WAR:

    Let's say we have equal HP before any buff: 4000
    And we have boss which attacks for 1000 damage on you.
    Stopped reading here. 4k health? What are we level 48?

    Your numbers also do not take into consideration critical heals, and IB on top of critical heals, and critical IB.

    Does not have time to use SS? Ever heard of swiftcast? You can use swift+SS every other DS. Summoner can swift rez.

    @ everyone else, thanks for the laughs, basing all of your argument off someone elses horrible numbers of a level 48 character in ilvl 40 gear, pretty much a joke of an argument.

    Oh and to the hallowed ground argument, who even HGs a Death Sentence? Are you high?
    (0)
    Last edited by Pesmergia; 02-13-2014 at 07:15 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    dron13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    20
    Character
    Ray Snowheart
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    Stopped reading here. 4k health? What are we level 48?

    Your numbers also do not take into consideration critical heals, and IB on top of critical heals, and critical IB.

    Does not have time to use SS? Ever heard of swiftcast? You can use swift+SS every other DS. Summoner can swift rez.

    @ everyone else, thanks for the laughs, basing all of your argument off someone elses horrible numbers of a level 48 character in ilvl 40 gear, pretty much a joke of an argument.

    Oh and to the hallowed ground argument, who even HGs a Death Sentence? Are you high?
    1) You talked about difference between damage reduction - I shown you how much damage you will take when you have equal situations. Why the hell you are considering level?
    If you want to use your PLD as example - ok - change 4000 HP to 7000 HP. The damage reduction is the same:
    7000 HP with 800 (1000*0.8) damage equal to 8750 HP ( 7000*1.25) with 1000 damage - both will need 8.75 hits to kill you.
    2) crits are plain damage increase - 1.5x damage. So 800 damage will become 1200, and 1000 damage will become 1500. 7000 HP with 1200 damage equal to 8750 HP with 1500 damage again - 5.83 hits to kill you.
    3) Swiftcast has 60s cooldown - and if you waste it on SS, then you won't be able to swift-res someone in "oh, sh*t" moments or swift-heal. Anyways, every DS comes each 30 seconds, right? Then he can swiftcast SS on you in only half of the situations.
    4) Critical heals - look at p.2, same plain increase here, and I already shown the numbers - better heals are on PLD if we consider Shield Oath and Defiance.
    5) stop being rude, please. I hear only "we dont consider this, we don't consider that", but it's only words - show real numbers, potency example, formulas, screenshots, that can show us that you are right.
    (11)

  6. #6
    Player
    Kuwagami's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    4,330
    Character
    Kuwagami Tarynke
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pesmergia View Post
    Stopped reading here. 4k health? What are we level 48?

    Your numbers also do not take into consideration critical heals, and IB on top of critical heals, and critical IB.

    @ everyone else, thanks for the laughs, basing all of your argument off someone elses horrible numbers of a level 48 character in ilvl 40 gear, pretty much a joke of an argument.
    You surely don't know what a simplified example is.


    Do it with 6000 hp
    WAR now have 7500 hp
    it takes 8 blows to kill a war, while the pld will take the same 8 blows to die.

    With the same 1000 heal, it takes 6 to heal the pld, while with these 6 the war will be 300 hp short to full.

    Even with crits, it takes 4 to top off a pld, and the war is STILL 300 hp short. your IB argument fails at that point since it will barely fit these missing hp. only a crit IB gives a 150 overheal which is totally worthless at that point.

    then we take the 20% damage reduction for let's say 2 hits. war get 400 less damage for next calculation, so your next IB will be worthless apart the mitigation effect, which now makes you equal to the pld. strictly equal.


    TL DR : do your math
    (7)

  7. 02-23-2014 04:32 AM