Any word on when we will get an Auction House?

[Peregrine]

I will gladly pick up my crap on foot if it means no one can bot the activity. A single ah botter does worse things for your convenience than running ever would. First, they get rewarded as if they played there times more than you do. Second you'll never see the items on ah for prices that are acceptable.

Essentially I would rather run than never have a chance at it or be thoroughly whipped by a cheater in my own craft.

[ShinChuck]

I know, but I will gladly pick up my crap on foot if it means no one can bot the activity. A single ah bitter dies worse things for your convenience than running ever would. Essentially I would rather run than never have a chance at it.

It's nice you're willing to decide for the entire population what their time, effort and convenience is worth, and you might be all for sacrificing freedom and convenience to stop minor cases of illegal activity (maybe SE can set up cameras on every corner to watch EVERYBODY and be sure nobody's doing anything shady), but just because you'd be willing to make the sacrifice, doesn't mean it's fair to ask everyone to, especially when using anecdotal evidence to make a decision.

[Peregrine]

They are not minor cases. AH botting and price speculation...market playing....were huge issues in 11. Botting dominates whatever activity that it can be used for, and you can never compete with it as a human. It only takes one botter for you to never be able to get an item on the ah for as long as they bot it unless you sit there and spam like it does. Eventually you have to sleep. It keeps scavenging the item you want.

So to me your choice is to pick up your items or pretty much pick up a pickaxe and run further.

[ShinChuck]

Then they should say that instead of asking for an AH. That's my point here. There are two ways to interpret what they are saying, so they should clarify. Those who say they don't want an AH because the marketplace is fine could clarify what they mean as well, but it's not too necessary. I mean, I'm sure they are not against improved marketplace [and everything included, not just AH] either.

I'm not even sure what your point is, honestly. The people who are asking for an AH don't want a literal AH with nothing else sufficing ever. They want the same functions as an AH, whether a separate entity or with the basic AH functions of the Wards upgraded to accomplish that. And on the other side, saying "I liked Wards better than AHs" is like saying "I like dogs better than canines."

Why should they change it? You are asking for them to do unnecessary work. Both can co-exist as well. But before that happens, the two systems are closely integrated and thus do not need to be kept separate in the discussion.

It's been shown multiple times that there's no reason they must be kept together, and anymore are really *unnecessarily* connected. Retainers buying and selling is a concept for the old bazaar-style wards. It is now an outdated relic that only adds *unnecessary work* to the system. That's why they should change it.

They are not minor cases. AH botting and price speculation...market playing....were huge issues in 11. Botting dominates whatever activity that it can be used for, and you can never compete with it as a human. It only takes one botter for you to never be able to get an item on the ah for as long as they bot it unless you sit there and spam like it does. Eventually you have to sleep. It keeps scavenging the item you want.

So to me your choice is to pick up your items or pretty much pick up a pickaxe and run further.

That's absolutely not my choice. I've played XI for a while and NEVER had issues to the level you're implying by any means. Hecked, I've played MMOs since they were text based in the early 90s.

You're telling me I need to sacrifice convenience (convenience other games, including XI) allow me to deal with "bots" as if that's the only way to deal with botters, as if SE can't and hasn't banned them before. Numerous games, including games like WoW, have survived with *gasp* an Auction House that didn't require running, and botters did not ruin them.

It sounds like you're on a bit of witch hunt with this. I don't see many others freaking out about botters.

[Betelgeuzah]

I'm not even sure what your point is, honestly. The people who are asking for an AH don't want a literal AH with nothing else sufficing ever.

Who are you to talk for them? I can assure you that there are those who want AH system called Auction House separate from the Marketplace and can not grasp the fact that Marketplace is about to be made into one. As well as those who say "they don't want an AH since there is the marketplace" who mean that they want the marketplace improved to be as efficient as AH.

It's been shown multiple times that there's no reason they must be kept together, and anymore are really *unnecessarily* connected. Retainers buying and selling is a concept for the old bazaar-style wards. It is now an outdated relic that only adds *unnecessary work* to the system. That's why they should change it.

Well, if we take that approach then there is no reason why SE can't make this game free forever while updating it regularly for years to come and implementing an expansions worth of content every few months. Except the fact that it costs too much money, it uses all of their resources and manpower and is not financially viable tactic for a company looking to make profit.

Anything is possible as long as we ignore the 'details' above. They can improve the item search but they can also keep the retainers to function as-is. There is no logical reason to take it away from them, it just means more work for no apparent gain.

[ShinChuck]

Who are you to talk for them? I can assure you that there are those who want AH system called Auction House separate from the Marketplace and can not grasp the fact that Marketplace is about to be made into one. As well as those who say "they don't want an AH since there is the marketplace" who mean that they want the marketplace improved to be as efficient as AH.

Most people aren't so unreasonable that they won't use an auction house called "Market Wards" because it's not called "Auction House." Don't you think it's a little absurd saying people wouldn't accept "Wards" that offered everything AHs do but weren't called "Auction Houses"? A rose is a rose by any other name.

Of course they'd be happy if they got everything they wanted from the system, call it an AH or call it the Wards.

Well, if we take that approach then there is no reason why SE can't make this game free forever while updating it regularly for years to come and implementing an expansions worth of content every few months. Except the fact that it costs too much money, it uses all of their resources and manpower and is not financially viable tactic for a company looking to make profit.

Anything is possible as long as we ignore the 'details' above. They can improve the item search but they can also keep the retainers to function as-is. There is no logical reason to take it away from them, it just means more work for no apparent gain.

Er, you're saying cutting Retainers from the Wards would not be feasible financially or in terms of manpower? That big, massive SE and it's brilliant minds couldn't figure out a way to do that? Okay, I'd like to see your financial numbers, and would like to know the name of the dev team member who has told you this.

There's an entirely logical reason to take them away: they're an unnecessary, unintuitive aspect. The Retainers right now are extra work for everyone involved, it's extra maintenance, it would make the game flow better. It would not be hard to move them to another area, and allow people to summon them for banking aspects. Do you really think SE can create gorgeous, ingenious games, but not simply move the locations where NPCs are allowed to be summoned?

[Sonic_the_Hedgehog]

The "Wards" are a basic Auction House. You open a menu, search, find the lowest price, and buy, just with some random walking added in. The *concept* of "Market Wards" was a bazaar-style marketplace of random searching. That concept died the moment search was implemented. Call it Wards, call it an AH, "A rose is a rose by any other name."

The concept of random searching died, but the bazaar-style marketplace is still the same. I can search for something but still come across something I didn't search for that I want to buy in that person's retainer. Also I rather just buy my item than bid over it.