Holmgang and Foresight still.... Meh ? How I would do it

[ChestyBear]

So while Hollowed Ground is a sure shot at ass-saving and leave healers a lot of room to breath (10 seconds), Holmgang is a very risky and unfair gamble (i.e. you have calculate whether you should should cut off your legs to get hit by every AOE imaginable OR not use it right now and keep dodging AOE instead because maybe you're getting healed the very next second). Even if you hit the jackpot, you still end up with almost no health, and healers always shit their pants watching your 1HP while you have one or two second of Hg left.

I personally think (Holmgang) vs (Hollowed Ground+Tempered Will) is among the most ridiculous examples of class balancing.

[ChestyBear]

So here's my proposal for a new Holmgang:
Effect:
_Apply 40% Heavy on the warrior and nearby enemies (i.e. no target needed to use this oh-shit button). The warrior is immune to other movement effects.
_If the warrior's health dropped below 20% of his maximum HP, grants "Undying Spirit"
_"Undying Spirit" grants 6 seconds of immunity and 400% of all damage done are received as HP. WAR's attacks also always hit and crit during this time.
Duration: 15 seconds
Recast time: 300 seconds. Recast time is halved (150 seconds) if Undying Spirit is never used.

[ChestyBear]

My reasoning: This new Hg fits well with the warrior theme and gameplay. It is still a gamble but with a bigger reward and a lesser punishment:
1) Why add "400% of all damage done are received as HP" during Undying Spirit? Isn't it too much?
_This effect is more symbolic than anything. Having less damage mitigation abilities than PLD, WAR compensates by doing more damage and restores his own HP through said damage.
_Undying Spirit can only proc at most once per 300 second and the WAR can output at most 3 (most likely 2) attacks within the 6 seconds window.
_The lifesteal effect may heal the WAR for 10-20% of his max HP since he's no DPS.

[ChestyBear]

2) Why 300/150 seconds VS Hollowed Ground's 420 seconds?
_The Immunity only lasts 6 seconds instead of 10.
_This new Hg is STILL a gamble. You still get crippled with Heavy resulting in getting hit by bigger AOEs --> You're gambling your current HP and the potential HP healed by healers before "Undying Spirit" procs.
_If the WAR loses the bet, he still lost a large amount of HP due to Heavy yet never benefited from the immunity and he now faces a death sentence with a very low HP (Unlike PLD who still dodge AOEs and gives healers plenty of time to bring his HP back to 100% before the effect of Hollow Ground ends).
_Therefore it makes sense that the WAR don't have to wait the full 300 seconds to use it again as he never benefited from it in the first place (if anything, he wasted a lot of damage mitigation potential for not being able to avoid the big hits).
_The "Immovable" affect of "Tempered Will" is also still tied in with this Holmgang. Should the WAR want to use just the Immovable effect like a PLD would with Tempered Will, he shouldn't have to wait 300s and also risk wasting Undying Spirit. Hence, the 150 seconds for unused Undying Spirit.

[Bluetaro]

What they could do with holmgang is if the warrior takes lethal damage he spikes back up to full health.

[ChestyBear]

What they could do with holmgang is if the warrior takes lethal damage he spikes back up to full health.

10% HP --> Pop Holmgang and get rooted --> One hit in the face from Boss (Lethal hit) --> 100%HP -->Still rooted for another 4 seconds --> Eat 2 AOEs --> Back to 10%HP -> Can move again the very moment another AOE shoots up --> A Dead Warrior

[Versiroth]

Here's my idea. Give Holmgang a 10 second duration, during which time, your HP can't drop below 1 and all of your attacks made during the 10 seconds are given back as 300% health after the effect ends. Also, it would still root the enemy, but instead of rooting you, it would lock you within a 6 Yalm circle around the mob. So, you're still linked by a chain (meaning you can't just run away), but you could still circle or run through the mob if needed to get out of AOEs. It would also retain the knock back immunity effect. Also, the CD would change to match the Paladins (5 minutes).

So, say you're down to 1K HP, and Mountain Buster is coming. You pop Holmgang, MB hits, and you now have 1HP. During the 10 seconds, You get 3 complete GCDs (4 in a perfect world) and put out 1K damage. The 10 seconds ends and your HP jumps from 1 to 3001. Which gives your healer a little breathing room to get off some heals in case they didn't get off any during the effect.

The Paladins Holy Ground would still be better, as it isn't linked to a mob and your HP can't drop during the effect, but, this new Holmgang would be a lot closer and it would stay true to how the Warrior is supposed to play.

As far as Foresight goes, bump it to 40% defense and give us a trait that includes magic defense. Done.

[Remn]

HG do not have limit on how much damage it can absord. it just that some boss ability ignore HG.

[Heroicbandit]

If you really want to play up the idea of "Foresight", instead of having it increase Defense, just have it increase Parry chance by an absurdly high amount (80%). Since Parrying is only a ~20-22% reduction in damage taken and the baseline chance for it occurring already exists, it not going to be particularly strong (just look at Bulwark for PLD), and it keeps Foresight applying only to physical attacks (in fact, it would probably have about the same end results as the existing Foresight does).

I actually really like this idea or a similar variant of it. Essentially it puts WARs at around the same damage reduction as Rampart albeit only physical damage. Still loads more useful than its current state. I've parried Mountain Busters and Double Wheels. It certainly helps.

[Nayto]

Stuff

Sounds pretty useful, too bad SE won't prolly go this way so let's water it down.

Give holmgang the good'ol effects of mighty strikes maybe (because man... "MIGHTY STRIKES" where was this?). Guaranteed crits and infuriated (stacks aren't lost) for the 6 second duration; none of that invincibility or HP absorption crap because the PLD's will whine, they can pop Bloodbath if they want the HP absorption stuff (no, not buffing that either, deal with it). During that time give yourself a buffer of 1.2kish hp from the double inner beasts (GCD is 2-3secs I think) to have a bit further of a fighting chance with the 20% DR from inner beasts... this'll make you survive an Auto-attack at least which is what people are complaining about, right?

Or perhaps make it grant you an after effect of 50% DR for a couple of after seconds, basically a reverse berserk.

Keep the bind stuff because I'd always imagine Holmgang to be some sort of "your going down with me" ability from the warrior... or an intense glomping attack.