PvP for Disciples of Magic is disastrously designed and woefully inconsiderate.

[Trypich]

DISCLAIMER: I eagerly invite others to correct me in places where I don’t make a strong argument. I am not end game. This is my experience at level 30 cap. I have done research to understand the scene at end game. It doesn’t look much better. Most of this is written from the perspective of a White Mage, but almost all of it applies to Black Mage as well.

EDIT: Took some commenter's thoughts to heart, tried a few new things, and thought some more things over. I've whittled down my original bullet points to an even shorter list, in case any dev are watching. Below these, I've added some ideas for solutions. Thank you to those who made meaningful contributions.

• Disciples of Magic need an enabling event to make a meaningful action.
» Any DoW that pursues us undisturbed will beat us, period.
• Defensive PvP skills are difficult to acquire given the circumstances.
• Queuing is not worth the wait to enter into battle, only to be cut down within twenty seconds.

Solutions
• Reduce PvP AP costs for defensive maneuvers, in particular: Equanimity.
• Create a 3 out of 3/5 out of 5/etc. mode for Wolves Den so that new players can at least have multiple opportunities to practice and hone their skills even when they are week.

And some additional consideration for 30 cap:
• PvP armor for Level 30 players.
• More defense oriented gear for mages.

[Quackley]

Umm, DoM are actually really good...
BLM and SMN are probably the two best DPS classes overall (which works out a little strangely considering team comps are forced, but eh).

It sucks early without long Equanimity and bubble and stuff, but it gets much, much better.

The barrier for entry through gear/abilities is a huge issue, but the actual strength of the classes isn't so much of a big deal. :l
It sure isn't fun most of the time, but again, another issue of PvP that's not really related to class strength.

Frontlines is more where DoM will shine, and where PvP mechanics are built around, so hopefully that ends up being better.

[Youmu]

I agree that mechanics for DoMs are harshly unforgiving, however we are also the most capable classes for ending matches quickly. There needs to be major reworks to sleep prior or at the same time as any buffs to our defensive side of things.

The real problem is the fact that anything we can do can be negated by a well played MNK. Equanimity? Perfect balance, then silenced for 10 seconds, and stunned 6 more. A very good MNK will even wait until til your casts are halfway finished to interrupt, meaning he not only can negate Equanimity, but two sure casts, one prior to equanimity, one after.

CC the MNK, you say? Too bad, they have fetter ward for that too. Don't use equanimity til you're DRed? MNK is saving his CDs for yours man, thats not happening. Maybe if the tank is an idiot and stuns you early to waste stun DR do you have a chance.

[Trypich]

Quackley, Youmu:

Thanks for the responses! I had a MUCH longer post but I have a 1,000 character limit and couldn't post it. (Is this for all people are new posters?)

Barrier to entry is TERRIBLE. As I outline a little, you show up and you get your butt handed to you in those first few Ranks. It's horrible design.

In response to your points about Disciples of Magic being glass canons (effective, but easy to fold): I thought about that, but I don't see how it's a good argument. Remember that I wrote this from the perspective of White Mage. Maybe Black Mages get some satisfaction out of nuking something—even if it's just a few hits. As a White Mage, I frequently run out then face plant.

The thing is: if I'm so potentially powerful, it just isn't showing.

Also, I didn't include SMN/SCH in this because they are fairly different than BLM and WHM. Using DoM was pretty imprecise. But I didn't just want to say "BLM and WHM" because this has a lot to do with casting.

[Youmu]

Nah, its for everyone, you can bypass the post limit by editing the rest of your post in. I usually just ctrl+a ctrl+x the post, post it with something like asdasdasdasda, then edit the rest in.

Best advice I can give you as a WHM is use fluid aura after a MRD holmgangs you (dont work as well as it used to, but still gives you breathing room), and spam sleeps, learn how sleep DR works. You get a 30 second sleep, a 15 second next, and a 7 second after that before a player will fully resist sleep. From the last application of sleep, DR resets after 60 seconds. Most players will purify out of sleeps so being able to quickly resleep is essential. Also, grab blizzard 2, its a decent lifesaver. Use the lv 8 THM surecast to get important casts off when you know you're on stun or silence DR.

[Quackley]

You can bypass the character limit by posting a message, and then editing it.
There's no limit for edits. No idea why.

You're not playing with a full set of gear, or full set of abilities, of course you're not powerful.
In full gear and with abilities, WHM/BLM are both pretty powerful.
Fluid Aura and Repose are both incredibly powerful tools.

BLM is honestly probably the strongest class in coordinated games, and probably one of the weaker ones/most frustrating ones to play in random groups.
Sleep a target? Nah break it instantly, CC is for scrubs.
How dare you not kill the healer with your scathes, because your team broke everything and gave you no time to set up.

[Trypich]

I will take both your pieces of advice to heart.

One thing for SE to consider, however, is that as it stands, there aren't that many "returns on investment" for DF PvP, and it's pretty fruitless at 30 cap. One of the major tenets of my original post: it's a completely inefficient use of my time. I show up, I face plant, I wait six minutes to do it again. Over, and over, and over.

It'd be awesome if we could get best 3 out of 3/5 out of 5 matches. So that even in situations that aren't optimal (bad gear, few abilities, bad group) it's at least, an exciting run and not just single battles marred by constantly getting a DRG and MNK on your case each and every time.

And I do have to stand by my argument that Equanimity comes way too late. Should casters get 100% casting rate against melee attacks? No, of course not. That'd really break the game. But this whole 0% stuff is wildly one-sided. You have to be constantly defensive as a magic class, and that isn't a varied experience. It's still one-sided.

Perhaps hitting 50 will change my perspective. If it does, you won't hear from me again. :P

BTW Quackley, is there a source for your comment on PvP being designed specifically around Frontlines? I'm interested.

[Youmu]

Quackley pretty much hit the nail on the head. Its rewarding as hell throwing a double flare on 3 people sitting around your healer and killing everything, but its an extremely rare scenario. Most of the time, its just people breaking your sleeps and then wondering why you have zero damage.

[Quackley]

BTW Quackley, is there a source for your comment on PvP being designed specifically around Frontlines? I'm interested.

There's no real source, it's just the way the mechanics are built.

They're fairly similar to DAOC, an old school game that was known for large raid vs raid stuff.
Frontlines is similar in that sense.

Some developer at some point apparently said he was a big fan of the game, dunno who and don't really have a source, just word of mouth I guess. You could probably find it somewhere, but that's a lot of work that I don't want to do. :3

There'll be noticeable issues with frontlines, like summoners stacking dots and banes putting out huge pressure on raids, or flares doing a similar thing, but the barrier to entry is much more forgiving, since you're one person in a sea of bodies and you're likely to have more chance to sit there and turret.

[TaneshimaPopura]

BLMs only need 10s equanimity. Cause their burst phase never last more than 10 seconds, SMNs can reduce the damage intake with Energy Drain and Ruin 2 Blinds. BLMs can Aetherial Manipulate and have reset on Surecast which is really great. They have the tools needed to get things done, you only need a PvP level of 6-9 to start seeing potential for SMN and BLM. Whereas MNKs need PvP level 15+ to be effective.