Wy XIV is failing as it's improved...

[Cyruance]

So the question I have for the community is: is the current team's solution to FFXIV just modeling it after MMO systems that have already proved successful in other MMO's, making it yet another copycat MMO? I know they're going by the feedback they received but is this really the solution? Will this really make it successful? And to the current development team: If you are just revamping things based on other MMO's systems (like the auto attack) what will make FFXIV unique? What will make me want to play FFXIV's auto attack instead of another MMOs auto attack system? Many believe that FFXIV isn't failing but ALREADY failed. Is making FFXIV resemble other MMO's really what's going to put this game on the map and revolutionize it?

I believe at its heart, Final Fantasy XIV has the chance to be something different, unique, fun and classic Final Fantasy. I'm not saying everything in the game could be amazing. (like the market wards. That really needs to just be dumped. It's just a longer, more tedious auction house) But I just don't want to see it's potential be traded in for WOW mechanics and just become another MMO clone. I hope it one day reaches its full potential. Thanks to Yoshi-P and the entire FFXIV team. i know you're working hard and I hope for the best.

I can't say I agree that throwing out the old combat system should lead to this whole line of copy-cat thinking(FFXI had auto attack after all)... but, I think you're right all the same.

SE builds its games around its own specific, often arrogant, visions - and for the most part they turn out very nice. (I say as a FF fan, which I assume most here are) Recently they've faltered though, perhaps realized they've taken their vision to too much of a niche audience<FFXIII>, and when combined with FFXIV's horrible failure... they probably just said screw it: give people whatever they clamor for, it works for WoW! This is even the case with how FFXI has evolved over the past few years and need I mention FFXIII-2, pretty much a direct, knee-jerk response to FFXIII's criticisms.

SE seems to be changing its design philosophy, moving away from pushing its own vision to attempting to embrace player demands - and its not necessarily a good thing, especially in the MMO context. I would make the statement that they just don't know how to properly combine player desires with their own FF vision so what we're left with is FFXIV as it is now: A Final Fantasy in name only thats trying to emulate what Blizzard does, and doing it poorly. (Don't mean to put a WoW vs FF bend on it, but you can't ignore the influence that overwhelmingly popular game has had on the entire MMORPG industry)

Now this last part is just my personal opinion, consider it dumb/fanboyish if you will, but I'd say Final Fantasy, in all its specific charm, can not exist as some sort of hybrid between FF elements and player demand. Final Fantasy, JRPGs in general even, are all about telling a story, about immersing the player in a dramatic world enriched with lore, music, and meaning. You simply can not create that same feel, that same uniqueness, if you're trying to listen to player demands - which to be frank, basically means appealing to casual gamers in the traditional MMO terminology. IMO FFXIV is doomed to fail as it will neither succeed as a Final Fantasy or as a standard appeal-to-all game trying to follow in WoW's footsteps.

But hey I might just be pessimistic, they might find their groove and manage to create that Final Fantasy magic along with keeping up with player expectations...they're failing hard at the moment, but at least they seem to be trying.

[FromZanarkand]

Final Fantasy, JRPGs in general even, are all about telling a story, about immersing the player in a dramatic world enriched with lore, music, and meaning. You simply can not create that same feel, that same uniqueness, if you're trying to listen to player demands - which to be frank, basically means appealing to casual gamers in the traditional MMO terminology. IMO FFXIV is doomed to fail as it will neither succeed as a Final Fantasy or as a standard appeal-to-all game trying to follow in WoW's footsteps.

I totally agree. I share the same fear for XIV (And Final Fantasy games in general). As for FF games in general, I think if they just take it back to its roots (maybe like FFIX? With some changes of course) they'd get a wonderful response and it would officially be the return of Final Fantasy. With XIII, it wasn't like XIV where they just didn't put in the work. Their visions and ideas for how to revolutionize JRPGs just wasn't great. They just need to go back and rethink it.

But as for XIV, yeah we all know it was half-assed and just never finished. Maybe never will be. It wasn't so much a problem of vision as it was a problem of vision execution. (except for the market wards vision. That can officially die) I agree that by compromising with traditional MMO standards, which they might end up doing, it will be harder for it to have that FF magic. I don't think it's impossible. If the story came first and was intriguing (and FF-like) and ranking up to get through the story wasn't such a pain that'd be a strong start. And if it was rich with FF lore, (*cough* Chocobos) plenty of summons and FF classes (which I know they're planning on implementing) then XIV might just have a fighting chance.

[Cyruance]

But as for XIV, yeah we all know it was half-assed and just never finished. Maybe never will be. It wasn't so much a problem of vision as it was a problem of vision execution. (except for the market wards vision. That can officially die) I agree that by compromising with traditional MMO standards, which they might end up doing, it will be harder for it to have that FF magic. I don't think it's impossible. If the story came first and was intriguing (and FF-like) and ranking up to get through the story wasn't such a pain that'd be a strong start. And if it was rich with FF lore, (*cough* Chocobos) plenty of summons and FF classes (which I know they're planning on implementing) then XIV might just have a fighting chance.

As a lore obsessed person, I fully agree. This ties to a post I made in the giant, elephant-in-the-room thread(One to Fifty, One Zone) - an emphasized, fleshed out story from the start would have done wonders for this game. Its a key element of the Final Fantasy experience, one pushed to the extreme in XIII, and it serves a definite purpose in focusing the vision. Zone progression, mobs, areas of interest, quests, classes, characters - everything could be tied together and given focus and meaning with well established lore to serve as a foundation and context.

Generic classes, cities without charm/personality, massive empty zones(with no progression), lack of impending danger - few roaming beastmen / a great enemy that only materializes as a couple of NPC's in a couple of missions, daily quests(excuse me, levequests) instead of real quests... If they had any great story for the world from the get-go, as defines a mainline Final Fantasy, it definitely was in no way reflected in the game.

To address your suggestions, it seems like they're getting there with things like summons(Ifrit battle is supposedly in the works, though he is the only primal that really appears in the game so far ignoring leviathan), ff classes are indeed in the works, and airships/chocobos/etc. can be added as time goes on - its the story that worries me. The world is already made, and barring something radical like a complete world restructure/reboot, its going to be hard to retroactively give the game lore and a plot that really meshes with the world. If they even prioritize it in the face of now more tangible gameplay issues.