Glaring problem with cooking. SE please address. Everyone please support this cause.

[Cocytus]

Sorry if you read this duplication in General Discussion thought I was posting it in this one so I re-posted here in the correct section.

Currently as cooking stands the upper tier food goods are practically worthless to make in terms of stat bonus they provide and difficulty in crafting compared to lower level ranged foods in the 40-50's.

This goes to show what is the point in crafting the single or double star foods? Currently not much as I will demonstrate below.

Finger Sandwich Double Star LvL 50 item.
~~~Stats~~~
NQ: Parry +3% (Max 22), Vitality +2% (Max 15), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)
HQ: Parry +4% (Max 27), Vitality +3% (Max 19), Accuracy +2% (Max 11)

VS.

La Noscean Toast LvL 45 item.
~~~Stats~~~
NQ: Parry +4% (Max 18), Vitality +3% (Max 11), Accuracy +2% (Max 7)
HQ: Parry +5% (Max 23), Vitality +4% (Max 14), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)

Lets consider HQ as it has the highest % and Max cap for the food stuffs in question. So with the above item (tank food lets call it) to hit the caps for the Finger sandwich I would need somewhere along the lines of (27/4)*100 = 675 Parry, (19/3)*100 = 633 Vitality, and (11/2)*100 = 550 accuracy.

Now let us look at the Toast using the same style equations as above. To max out I would be looking for 460 Parry, 350 Vitality, and 450 Accuracy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now let us put this into practice. My iLvL 90 warrior with full strength build is sitting around 472 parry, 443 vitality, and 497 accuracy. Full vitality I would be at 514 parry, 518 vitality, and 508 accuracy.

So lets us use the highest stats of either build that would allow us to maximize the caps for the foods above and compare. Where stats are capped will be in blue.

Finger Sandwich:
Parry: [20.6 / 27 vit] 18.9 / 27 str
Vitality: [15.5 / 19 vit] 13.3 / 19 str
Accuracy: [10.2 / 11 vit] 9.9 / 11 str *Of note here this stat could be considered null as already at the cap needed for coil 5 content aka above 480 accuracy in both builds pre-food.*

La Noscean Toast:
Parry: [25.7 (23) / 23 vit] 23.6 (23) / 23 str
Vitality: [20.7 (14) / 14 vit] 17.7 (14) / 14 str
Accuracy: [10.2 (9) / 9 vit] 9.9 (9) / 9 str

So looking back at the stats and the highest placements for finger sandwich and toast let us compare.

Sandwich~~vs.~~Toast
20.6 parry vs 23 in both str and vit builds on toast
15.5 vitality vs 14 in both builds
10.2 accuracy vs 9 in both builds



Summary: In short I feel that the effects of food buffs need to be revisited in order to adjust upwards the potency of the food items as the inferior crafted items give superior stats. To address the argument of "Those double stars were added in to account for future stat growth" I can't take this comment seriously as it assumes cooking would never get any new recipes and if they did the new items with higher caps would again over shadow the 50 double stars with a jump from LvL 40-50 items to the new 50+ foods.

Bonus: This isn't just on one food in case you would like to check the math I will post a few other food items and their primary stat below so you can get an idea of what I mean. All of these will be based off NQ but for HQ just increase the % by +1 so 3% goes to 4% as well as the max amount increasing. Keep in mind as with shown above most LvL 40-50 verison of the below foods have NQ 4% and HQ 5% with a max higher than what would be gained via the 4% from the foods below. The gap is further evident when comparing HQ foods.

Lava Toad Legs~~~~~Acc +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs. Stuffed Cabbage +4% (Max 17) 425 to cap

Black Truffle Risotto~~Det +3% (Max 14) 466 to hit cap vs. Buttons in a Blanket +4% (Max 13) 325 to cap

Pineapple Juice~~~~~Pie +3% (Max 14) 466 to hit cap vs. Mulled Tea +4% (Max 11) 275 to cap

Pineapple Ponzcake~~Spell Speed +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs Pastry Fish +4% (Max 14) 233 to cap *no food in-between this LvL 40 one and the LvL 50 double star version*

Sauteed Coeurl~~~~~Skill Speed +4% (Max 22) 550 to hit cap vs Eft Steak +4% (Max 21) 425 to cap 525

Apkallu Omelette~~~~Crit Hit Rate +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs. Deviled Eggs +4% (Max 19) 475 to cap
La

[Roth_Trailfinder]

You have the wrong idea as to what the problem is. Or, perhaps, just the wrong presentation, giving the impression you have the wrong idea what the problem is.

The problem is that for most people, they do not achieve the same level of benefit using the 2 star food that they would with the under 50 foods. The stat requirements to obtain the maximum benefit is a moot point. What matters is the transition point, the point at which the 2 star food *starts* to be better than the lower level food. Lets look at the foods you listed at the end, one at a time, shall we?

"Lava Toad Legs~~~~~Acc +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs. Stuffed Cabbage +4% (Max 17) 425 to cap"

In order for the Lava Toad Legs to provide a greater benefit (and I'm going to assume the game is rounding down) you have to get 18 points of Accuracy, or more. That means you need to be at 600 accuracy in order for the Accuracy gain to be better on the 2 star food compared to the lower level food. 18 / 0.03 = 600.

"Black Truffle Risotto~~Det +3% (Max 14) 466 to hit cap vs. Buttons in a Blanket +4% (Max 13) 325 to cap"

Here, because the difference is only one point, the 466 "cap" is indeed the point where you derive a greater benefit from the Risotto than you do from the Buttons. The difference between the two stat points is as large as it is due to the difference in the percentages.

"Pineapple Juice~~~~~Pie +3% (Max 14) 466 to hit cap vs. Mulled Tea +4% (Max 11) 275 to cap"

Just like the Lava Toad Legs and the Stuffed Cabbage, the issue is the point at which the Pineapple Juice starts to be better than the Mulled Tea. In this case, you need to get 12 points of Piety ... or at least 400 Piety.

"Pineapple Ponzcake~~Spell Speed +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs Pastry Fish +4% (Max 14) 233 to cap *no food in-between this LvL 40 one and the LvL 50 double star version*"

You need 500 Spell Speed for the Pineapple Ponzecake to pull ahead of the Pastry Fish.

"Sauteed Coeurl~~~~~Skill Speed +4% (Max 22) 550 to hit cap vs Eft Steak +4% (Max 21) 425 to cap 525"

Another case where, due to the one point difference in the food caps, it takes maxing out the effect for the 2 star food to be better. However, unlike the Risotto vs Buttons, the percentages here are the same, resulting in a much smaller stat increase required to allow the 2 star food to give a larger benefit.

"Apkallu Omelette~~~~Crit Hit Rate +3% (Max 22) 733 to hit cap vs. Deviled Eggs +4% (Max 19) 475 to cap"

It takes a 20 point Crit Hit Rate gain for the Apkallu Omelette to be better than the Deviled Eggs. 667 will see the 2 star food providing a bigger benefit.

Its not that stats required to cap the 2 star foods are set so high - its that the floors at which they become more effective than the lower level foods are set so high. If you had a max level food that boosted Vitality by 4%, and capped at 1000 Vitality, I do not think that you would be complaining that you cannot reach the 25,000 Vitality required to "cap" the food - you'd be happy enough that you get to go over the gain from the other Vitality foods. And that makes sense, that the highest level foods would provide the biggest benefit.

The problem with the 2 star foods, though, is they are set too low in their percentages. All of the foods of a given type (as defined by matching sets of stats, such as the La Noscean Toast and the Finger Sandwich both having Parry, Vitality, and Accuracy, so they would be the same type, but a food that offers Determination, Vitality, and Accuracy would be a different type) should, depending on their level, have different maximum stat gains, but should all have the same percentages for their stats.

In fact, if you look carefully at it, you will see that the HQ La Noscean Toast has the same percentages as the NQ Finger Sandwiches, with about two-thirds the actual stat caps. The two foods, IMO, should not look like this :
Finger Sandwich 2 star food.
NQ: Parry +3% (Max 22), Vitality +2% (Max 15), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)
HQ: Parry +4% (Max 27), Vitality +3% (Max 19), Accuracy +2% (Max 11)
La Noscean Toast LvL 45 item.
NQ: Parry +4% (Max 18), Vitality +3% (Max 11), Accuracy +2% (Max 7)
HQ: Parry +5% (Max 23), Vitality +4% (Max 14), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)

But, they should rather look like this :
Finger Sandwich 2 star food
NQ: Parry +4% (Max 23), Vitality +3% (Max 15), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)
HQ: Parry +4% (Max 27), Vitality +3% (Max 19), Accuracy +2% (Max 11)
La Noscean Toast LvL 45 item.
NQ: Parry +4% (Max 18), Vitality +3% (Max 11), Accuracy +2% (Max 7)
HQ: Parry +4% (Max 22), Vitality +3% (Max 14), Accuracy +2% (Max 9)

Part of the reason I feel they should be this way is that, for the most part, the limiting factor is going to be the actual hard cap on the gain from the food, rather than the percentage. Sure, if you are level 5 in your Class and are looking at a level 47 food, you should not expect to reach the caps on it. But at the max level, it should be clear which foods are the best, and having varying percentage modifiers confuses things too much.

[Cocytus]

You are basically just arguing my point against my point. I never said the Max caps where too high I was saying the %'s were too low to meet and be beneficial. For instance using your examples for the foods to become more viable than their 40-50 equivalent you would need up obtainable or simply un-viable amounts of stats such as 600 accuracy. If I had 600 acc why would I even need an extra 18? I'm over the recommended amount by nearly 100 points without the food. Same as is the case with the other examples and as my last paragraph explained the gaps grow larger in the case of HQ foods as the majority of the ones you referenced were taken from the NQ stat range not HQ.

Not saying you are more correct or I am more correct but I'm saying you assumed I meant something I didn't. I was showing the example of the magnitude of stats needed for 50 double stars to even come close to the stats you could obtain with their 40-50 versions.

Also for your suggestion you would need 550 to get the full 22 on the HQ and 450 to get the 18 on the NQ. I don't know about you but as a tank with full iLvL 90 gear and vit speced the max parry I have 514 base. Meaning the most I can obtain with either set at 4% is 20.6. Again this just proves the point I was trying to make I can get the 21/22 on the HQ Toast because why waste higher mats on 50 double star items that again I would never see an increase in gains since the % is too low. The viable amount you could obtain would never be achieved even if the max cap on the 50's were 5,000,000. You would still only get 4% of your base which would be 20.

I appreciate your well thought out response to my issue I present but again I think you may have missed my point in that I was showing how the % of the food items being lower than their 40-50 versions means stat caps aside as it doesn't matter I will still see more stats from the lower level item as I get more % from it. Its not about min/maxing out the food cap its about when I use a food with 5% max 23 I get all 23 points but with one at 4% max 27 because the 1% difference I miss out on 3 points of parry / spell speeds/ etc... on a higher tier food item which should not happen.

Again why does the higher tier items 50 double star foods have a lower % that makes them always give less stats than their higher % lower cap 40-50 versions. The 50's could have 4% max 300 and I will still always get more stats from the 5% 23 as I can get a theoretical max of 5.14 * 5 = 25.7 [vs] 5.14 * 4 = 20.6.

25.7/23 gives me 23 and 20.6/300 will only give me 20.6. I would rather take the 40-50 food with the 23 over the 20.6.

Now all things being equal even if they set the 50's at the same % rates as the lower tiers i.e. 4% NQ and 5% HQ THEN I could obtain a few more stats but not much as with my gear I have at max 25.7 I could get with the 5% and 20.7 with the 4%. This means even with the increase %, unless they go to something like 5% NQ 6% HQ I would still only get, [20.6/22] and [25.7/27].

So the item I could NQ quick synth all day and that doesn't eat clusters but crystals or shards would still give me only 3 parry points less, of 530 or so mind you, both on NQ and HQ. I would rather save the time in that case. Again I think the MAJOR problem is the lower % rate and the secondary is the stat gain difference is so marginal its laughable unless they increase the % on the double stars by like 2-3% and set them to maybe like 5%/6% or even 6%/7%.

[Roth_Trailfinder]

You were talking the amount of stats needed to reach the caps on the foods.

I was talking the point at which the 2 star foods become better than their lower level counterparts.

It really does not matter that it takes 215 more points of Parry to cap out the 2 star food than it takes to cap out the level 45 food. What matters is the point at which you are able to obtain more Parry from the 2 star food than you are from the level 45 food. And the other stats on the food, as well.

I am not saying that the idea behind your argument is wrong - the percentages on the i70 food are too low - merely that you are arguing it with meaningless caps.

[Lyrinn]

I figure 2 star foods won't be an issue once they release better gear (i95+). The concern then is "Will they will release 3+ star food with the same problem?" With the way things are, CUL will always be one step behind.

[Alistaire]

Why not just state this problem simply? Cooking is penalized because their 2-star items are useless due to the lack of ability to reach the caps given. There.

Even the 1-star food, which is all just for crafting, is unnecessary to guarantee hq's from nq mats.

[Valmar]

TL;DR

Use Buttons in a Blanket, Cause its Dps TIME ALL THE TIME!

[Alistaire]

TL;DR

Use Buttons in a Blanket, Cause its Dps TIME ALL THE TIME!

Even healers make good use of it!

[Cocytus]

You were talking the amount of stats needed to reach the caps on the foods.

I was talking the point at which the 2 star foods become better than their lower level counterparts.

It really does not matter that it takes 215 more points of Parry to cap out the 2 star food than it takes to cap out the level 45 food. What matters is the point at which you are able to obtain more Parry from the 2 star food than you are from the level 45 food. And the other stats on the food, as well.

I am not saying that the idea behind your argument is wrong - the percentages on the i70 food are too low - merely that you are arguing it with meaningless caps.

You aren't understanding the argument I am making. The caps are pointless as I said earlier. It could be 5,000,000. The fact is the % is too low on the double stars taking your exact argument into account via the point in which double star food gives the same if not more than the 40-50 version would mean I have to have unobtainable amounts of stats or in the case of acc food if I have 500 acc already, 20 over the recommended needed for coil T5, what is the point of adding another 20? It would make sense to have something like 6% with cap at 25 so if I had 450 lets say I would get 25 of 25 and be at 475 aka within 5 of the recommended cap.

As Alistaire put it, and sorry I refrained from using a over simplified statement like that in order to show the math and reason behind my argument to justify my claim, the 50 double star items are useless as they currently stand.

Also to address your comment Lyrinn I understand that iLvL will increase and there by stats will but the stats needed would be at ridiculous levels to incentives them over the 40-50 foods. And as you say if they add in 50+++ food with the same problem it would only get worse or they would be reconsidered and then people would just bypass the 50++ and once again why even have them in the game at that point?

The problem is two fold.

1) 40-50 foods are superior because the higher % means you get more stats regardless of them being capped to a lower maximum stat gain. In short the capped 23 is better than the none capped 20 I get from 50++ foods. Doesn't matter that with the 40-50 that I am hitting the cap that isn't the important part. The important part is that the higher % makes that food better than the higher level crafted food, so then why even bother having them exists since they are inferior to their lower equivalent.

2) Even if the iLvL gear does progress lets say and they never add any new cooking recipes while everyone else gets new stuff; At the point where I would have enough stats to = or gain more from the 50++ food I would be at such astronomical ranges already I wouldn't have need for the food in the first place.

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Regardless we are straying away from the point. As we all have different views on how the problem should be addressed or changed we all can agree at least that there is a problem in the fact that the 50++ food needs to be revisited and changed some way. This is the main cause of this thread to bring attention and movement behind this as I feel since not enough people are being vocal about it this subject gets over looked as other crafts prosper. Please let us agree that at least something should be done and get SE's attention to make the change, whatever it may be, in as swift a manor as possible.

[RinMorikaze]

I actually made a post about this on my FC forums, Cocytus. I really do hope gear arrives that helps us make use of the maximum potential of the food or they adjust the %'s.