A (bad ?) way of tanking...

[Degaulace]

say you have a 3 pull of mobs. 2 casters 1 melee. in a Caster Melee Caster formation. If the 2 casters are spread out to far my aoe will not hit them both. So i will pull the pack back and try to "Range" the casters in the pull to group them up closer so that my aoe hits all 3 mobs at once.

That's quite logical, but say your two dps are ranged ones. When everyone take care about the melee mob, the casters mobs attack the tank. But as the tank can't attack the casters mobs, the casters mobs may switch target to one of the dps (or the healer). In that case, the caster mobs are forced to come closer from the group, for them to be able to hit your range teammates. Therefore, no need to run back and forth to pack the mobs, as they'll end up packed anyway.
In fact, everything depend on the situation.
Besides, there's not really a bunch of caster mobs in lv <47 dungeons...

pre-50 dungeons are learning dungeons. maybe that's why you get newbs. Just a guess..

That's precisely what I said, even if I wouldn't say these dungeons are "learning" ones : why would they be ? They're neither easy nor difficult, they're just adjusted for low level characters, the same hi lv dungeons are adjusted for hi lv characters.
Every dungeon became easier when your lv is synch, and the HM/EX/endgame dungeons will be very easier once the max lv is increased.
For the rest, it's only a matter of practising and learning of different patterns...

Also, lots of "lv50 tanks" just burned through FATES if it's not their 1st job, so (sorry to say that) they suck horribly at maintaining hate. That's why they do lowbies to train and learn what they skipped previously.

Why "sorry to say that" ? Because you're a tank yourself and you're afraid to hurt your colleagues ?
We ALL know it's true, and not only for tanks, not only for secondary classes. Many players rush to lv 50 in main class without even do a single story quest.
But it's another debate...

No. In real world, if dps go crazy, ESPECIALLY summoners, it always end bad. Let's take an example which happened like 20 mins before I write this : WP run, smn/blm compo. No matter how well I did on my packs, I couldn't keep hate on the 3 packs bunch I usually go through until I spammed overpower preemptively. And he was doing nothing but his DoTs. Just releasing hell a bit too soon for my positioning.

As I said, many tanks don't understand their role is to do everything is needed to keep hate on them. If that means Overpower spam (in your case), so be it : spam it.
As for me, I almost ALWAYS cast my three dots then expand them to the mobs around as soon as possible. And when the tank do his job, I NEVER get the hate, even if he's not lv synch. Absolutely NEVER.
If the only way for the tank to keep the hate is spamming his agro skills like crazy, whatever the reason (too much bursting dps, for instance), then he have to do it. Especially for the WAR, who can easily control a whole bunch with Overpower. Period.

Ten seconds, though excessive, isn't that wrong. 10 seconds is nothing, compared to a wipe if your tank NEEDS that time to maintain a good hate build.

If he needs THAT time, he plays real bad and he needs to learn. As a dps, give in to this playing is stupid, as it will validate the tank's bad gameplay.

so you'll get 35 potency hate every 30 seconds without doing anything. of course you're going to put other DoTs above it, and a lot of other stuff like ruin when you have nothing left to do. This can totally overdamage a monster if the tank is spreading the hate build (if not, you'll take hate even faster). so it's less effective on hit but totally bullshitting the threat build if done wrong

The ONLY issue I ever encountered with placing my three dots (with or without expanding), is me suddenly getting the hate of mobs I just never hit and which are not affected by my expanded dots (in a situation where the tank do his job well, of course).
Damage is not the only parameter in hate. The dps, especially SMN and BLM, are über strong and deal monstruous damages, when compared to what can do a tank.
But a tank possesses damaging skills that generates more hate than other equal-damaging skills.
Even if a dps burst like crazy, the tank should be able to keep hate.
Even if it means spamming skills like Overpower, yes.

[AlrikRouge]

[Start of a little rant]
Hello.

I'm a tank. My job is to find mobs in a dungeon, get their attention on me, all at the same time, while some other people in the room are killing them, and then move on to the next group. Do you know how hard it can be to have someone face you and not look away, when the entire time someone else is poking them in the back? Ugh.

Anyway, the above is the whole job of a tank. There really is NOTHING else they are supposed to do. Some tanks that I have seen, have such a very refined way of doing this, that it looks like a very well practiced dance. They tank with finesse, vigor, attitude and exactness. And some tank even better, to the point of wondering how the hell they manage it, because other tanks point at them and "ooooh" and "ahhhh" and go wow!

Anyone who is a tank that wants to be a good tank, and wants to strive for perfection, will find out everything that he is doing right and do it better. And he or she will find out what they are doing wrong and either fix it or get rid of it. And in many cases, you will find that a lot of tanks have a tendency to tank the same way as a result of the above two points about "right" and "wrong".

BUT between the tank that knows his two basic and only real functions (keep all the mobs' attention on him all the time and to move on to the next set of mobs or boss) and the tank that does everything with finesse, elegance, speed, exactness and even with a bit of a chip on his shoulder, is a H-U-G-E, gigantic, fantastically large gaping monstrosity of a hole (that would probably be better described as a canyon bigger than The Grand Canyon.

AND THEN you have to add in that it is another person on the other end. Sheesh. Just to make things worse for you.

AND that awesome tanks can do things differently from each other and still be awesome.

So...are you finding out that a lot of tanks are running around to collect up mobs for you to kill and you don't like the way he or she is rounding them up for you?

Then I would suggest to you that either (a) ignore them, suffer through the dungeon or raid or whatever, doing your job the best you can without making things more difficult for the tank, (b) talking with them in party chat and make casual suggestions to how they may be able to do what they are doing but improve by "doing this and this" which "may make things easier" for the tank (which will also make it easier for you...) or (c) leave the dungeon or raid (preferably without making "stupid" comments or "noob" comments or anything like that). And the (c) option is not about the tank or other person not having thick skin, or not being able to take correction (see [b] instead), or whatever else, it's just plane rude to denigrate people with no purpose other than to make them feel like crap.

NOBODY does something the first time with perfection. Or the second. Or the third. Or sometimes the 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th or 13th time either. (And I know people will probably add "or ever....") Maybe tanking is not right for that person, or maybe they don't care. Or maybe they don't know.

And I will end my little rant and story with one comment and correction:

...say your two dps are ranged ones. When everyone take care about the melee mob, the casters mobs attack the tank. But as the tank can't attack the casters mobs, the casters mobs may switch target to one of the dps (or the healer). In that case, the caster mobs are forced to come closer from the group, for them to be able to hit your range teammates. Therefore, no need to run back and forth to pack the mobs, as they'll end up packed anyway.
In fact, everything depend on the situation.

This is not the job of tank. Never will be. And 99% of every time I have ever tanked, has this ever been the right thing to do. Wait for aggro of a mob to go to a DPS or healer so that it will then get closer to the tank? It sounds like you need to take on a tank role, get it up to level 50, and do about 100 runs through the higher level dungeons (not CT, since there are 23 other people, but 4-man dungeons) in DF and see what tanking is all about. Oh, also try the above suggestion you mentioned about 10 times, and see how much your healers and DPS love you.

[/End of a little rant]

[Yunnie]

Damage is not the only parameter in hate. The dps, especially SMN and BLM, are über strong and deal monstruous damages, when compared to what can do a tank.
But a tank possesses damaging skills that generates more hate than other equal-damaging skills.
Even if a dps burst like crazy, the tank should be able to keep hate.
Even if it means spamming skills like Overpower, yes.

This is wrong. If a dps burst like crazy, before the tank has established threat, the tank cannot hold hate.
Example:
a paladin moves to get into range to use shield lob on a mob.
A black Mage uses raging strikes and swift cast.
The paladin gets into range as uses shield lob and claims 1 of the 3 mobs in a pack.
A bard uses for requiem.
The black mage uses flare (it instantly casts due to swift cast).

This black Mage will definatelly grab agro on all 3 mobs. The paladins shield lob is definatelly not enough agro to hold off these guys. So the mobs start heading towards the BLM.

The paladin probably reacts to this situation by provoking 1 mob and shield lobbing once GCD is off cooldown. (Which is 2.5 seconds after the first shield lob.)

The paladin must now chase the mobs back to the group. He has a few options here. He should probably use cover on the BLM but now there's now way to mitigate dmg. Due to this more healing is needed to keep the paladin alive, forcing the healer to heal more aggressively.

Now that the paladin has arrived to the dps, he can flash spam, which probably will take at least another 2 global rotations or he can start his combo rotation. But if the BLM is continuing to cast spells, he is probably creating more enmity, so more flashes are probably needed to generate enough hate. If the paladin starts his combo rotation instead of flashing, fast blade creates no additional agro then basic damage since it has no enmity modifier. Savage blade generates some additional enmity, but not enough to regain threat. After those 2 global cooldowns, (which is 5 seconds) he can rage of halone which will definatelly regain agro on 1 mob. But if the blm is still casting spells, the original provoked target as well as the other mob are now attacking the BLM. Once cover ends, the blm could, surecast if he wanted to, and continue to go full on but be is probably at this point, either casting his defensive cooldowns, running from the mob in a frantic back peddle, or he dies due the onslaught of the enemies. If he didn't cast surecast, then he is probably getting interupted, and in most of these conditions, he is experiencing a dps loss.

As you can see, it would take the paladin more then 6 globals at least to regain agro on a all mobs if a blm wishes to go full bore at the start of the fight (and continues to go at maximum burst). But all of this can be avoided if the dps are smart enough (and most are) to tempo up into the fight. Knowing how to throttle can be a dps increase in a situation where going full blast can be a dps loss. If they waited a second or two (which is less then 1 global cooldown) before casting a spell (without the use of swiftcast), all of this could have been avoided. The paladin could in that time position the mobs and get into Rythem. Also the less healing the healer needs to do, grants that healer to increase over a dps of the party (ie casting holy).

Later on when the tank can pull multiple mob camps, you would do well to remember to let the tank set the pace of the battle.