The Monk Temple

[Vandesaan]

The other thread.



A couple times.

FWIW you don't need >100 hits unless you get bad luck.



That's the idea ...

Which thread's this? I'd love to see the math that tells me that 1% more critical hit chance is not better than gaining 3 more damage on every bootshine I do

[EasymodeX]

The one about the damage formula. It's probably buried by now I guess. Edit: Oh right, I remember I cross-posted it on reddit and that forum moves slow as hell. So the link would be: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Formula-Thread

Combine that with a decent model or simulation of Monk rotation / damage and it's pretty easy to evaluate the values of the stats and assign weights.

Depending on your stats, 6 to 8 points of determination will MAYBE add ONE (1) damage to a 150 potency attack.

You seem to have a skewed idea of how much stats are worth.

8 points of DTR will add about 1 damage to a 150p attack that has no buffs (no TW, no DK, GL stacks).

The way itemization then works, that is the equivalent of 11 or 16 critical hit rate or skill speed,

Not really. 11dtr is found on items in the same budget as 16 ss/crit. 8 dtr is swapped with 11 ss/crit. Roughly 7dtr to 10 ss/crit.

The 8 points of DTR is equivalent to about 10-11 crit.

10-11crit is about 0.72% chance to crit. Crits are +50% damage. 10-11crit is about 0.36% increased damage.

You already have a significant base critical chance in the range of [5%-ish base plus random gear, probably around 440 crit rate plus average IR buff resuling in ~19% chance to crit].

The 0.36% increased damage is marginally decayed by ~19%.

The result is ~.29% increased damage from the 10-11 crit.

The DTR is +1 damage / 232-ish damage on a 150p attack. So +0.4%. DTR contributes to autoattacks more than abilities. Guesstimating +0.5%. The DTR is actually more like +0.9 damage.

So +0.45%

The 8 DTR resulting in +0.45% damage is > the ~10-11 crit resulting in +0.29% damage.

That's just napkin math though.

I'd love to see the math that tells me that 1% more critical hit chance is not better than gaining 3 more damage on every bootshine I do

Hum, specific to this: 1% crit chance is less than 0.5% increase in damage.

3 more damage is significantly more than 0.5% increase in damage depending on how much you think your Bootshines hit for.

That's like ... pretty obvious.

[Vandesaan]

Right, 11 SS/ACC/CRT is 8 DTR, I forgot the numbers offhand. My bad. Doesn't change my point though; DTR is heavily skewered by rounding. There's three abilities with 150 potency for Monk; Dragon Kick, Bootshine and Steel Peak. When these three gain +1 dmg from your current DTR, chances are very high than anything above and below these potencies are seeing zero gains, as well as your autoattacks. You might be lucky and get +1 dmg on something with 140 or 160 potency. That fact alone tells me this;

Critical Hit Rate will increase everything you do. With every point you gain. Always. Percentage chances to get more damage are in the scenario that you are not going to be getting that extra damage because of rounding (which gets eaten and not counted as damage done) going to be worth more because you're not going to be using that skill that gets the increase every time. Dragon Kick, Bootshine and Steel Peak do only count for 21 to 22% of the damage I've done in most of my parses, which leaves out 78 to 79% damage that is highly likely not being affected by that determination you gained, opposed to having critical hit rate there instead that is affecting 100% of your damage.

But you'd already tested this and knew this, right?

[EasymodeX]

"A direct damage increase is dependent on RNG but a crit chance increase is reliable".

<insert random rounding assumption>

Ok.

which leaves out 78 to 79% damage that is highly likely not being affected by that determination you gained,

It's ok. When itemizing for DTR, the player usually gains more than 8 DTR across their full suite of gear.

As a result of this phenomenal dynamic, they tend to actually gain reliable returns. It is truly shocking.


As a sidenote, you seem to be angsty. You should settle down.

[NoctisUmbra]

I was going to chime in, then I caught up reading and realized EasymodeX basically covered everything I wanted to say, and probably better than I would have.

Determination is the way to go on MNK. Stack it. Test it. Compare it.

[Rochetm]

Are you positive it was from the flank? ADS does a metric shitton of turning for spellcasts, and the object on screen is .5-1.0s delayed from its actual direction.

Unlikely that it wasn't flank but this game does some crazy stuff sometimes.

[TheGlow]

Any suggestions for a fresh 50?
I was using fracture and what not, but up to 50 most fights were simple and duration wasnt a factor.
After banging out those last 2 lvls in Northern Thanalan fates, I very often was running out of TP.
Also I don't have Invigorate yet, so my low roulettes will now be aimed at my 17 lancer, so shouldnt take much longer.
B4B still worth pursuing? Same for Mercy stroke?
So far I have pitiful GC weapon, but full Darklight gear, strike and maim for rings, and the CT Body.
What kind of rotation should I start working with? I think Id like to drop fracture for the time being.

[NoctisUmbra]

Any suggestions for a fresh 50?
I was using fracture and what not, but up to 50 most fights were simple and duration wasnt a factor.
After banging out those last 2 lvls in Northern Thanalan fates, I very often was running out of TP.
Also I don't have Invigorate yet, so my low roulettes will now be aimed at my 17 lancer, so shouldnt take much longer.
B4B still worth pursuing? Same for Mercy stroke?
So far I have pitiful GC weapon, but full Darklight gear, strike and maim for rings, and the CT Body.
What kind of rotation should I start working with? I think Id like to drop fracture for the time being.

Drop Fracture. Not a worthwhile DPS increase for the risks involved. You can chose to revisit its use once you master the basics.

BfB and Mercy Stroke as well as Invigorate are all pretty much must haves. The Lancer skills particularly.

You typically want to alternate between doing Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes on the flank and then Bootshine > True Strike on the rear. As for your third skill in either combo, you'll want to prioritize Demolish if it isn't up on the target (and it isn't a trash that will die in <10s); otherwise you Snap Punch. Keep in mind Demolish is best from rear and Snap is best from flank.

If you're ever in a situation where you cannot attack the target from the flank, or simply have no reliable way of doing your usual positional attacks, just stick to using Bootshine and True Strike as they have decent base potencies. This is rare though, as usually you should be able to hit all positions.

[PenutButter]

I had already determined that Skill Speed is better than Crit as MNK a long time ago but it was too much of a pain to figure out Determination. I would like to believe the things posted here but I often find things on forums and the net to be wrong. Guess it doesn't really matter, its just 2ndary stats.

Do note that gear have a lower DET: CRIT/SSP/ACC ratio. Guess SE figured that DET is indeed more potent point for point.

[KaneTW]

FWIW you don't need >100 hits unless you get bad luck.

What a surprise that the person who doesn't know how probability works doesn't know how statistics work.

E: It was determined by pretty extensive testing that you can do yourself because I'm not here to spoonfeed you that the stat weights for monks (and melee classes in general) are Acc to cap > SS >= Crit >> Det >>> Acc beyond cap