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  1. #1
    Player
    Niwashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5,248
    Character
    Y'kayah Tia
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 50

    skipping areas should be a group decision

    A couple days ago, I was running Tam-Tara with a DF group. I was an arcanist in the low-30's levels (not that anyone else knew that last detail, as the party list just showed us all at the level-sync of 19) and was doing it as part of the Duty Roulette. Another player was brand new, running the dungeon for the first time.

    As we reached the first optional room, the tank just ran right past it into the next section and engaged the next group of mobs. As we finished them off, I pointed out that we'd missed an area, thinking the tank just didn't know the map very well and didn't realize we'd made a wrong turn. His response was something along the lines of "Oh, I just decided to skip that stuff."

    I think some tanks really need to learn that just because their role means they're supposed to be the first to engage each group of mobs does not mean they get to make such decisions on their own without consulting the group. If the tank had even been considering skipping part of the dungeon, he should have said so at the beginning so we could discuss it and decide if that's what we wanted to do. As it turns out, nobody else in the group (other than the tank) wanted to skip any of the content, and after I brought it up we backtracked to get the room he'd run past earlier, but it still floors me that the tank hadn't considered checking with any of us to begin with.

    It's possible you may occasionally get a group who all want to skip the optional rooms of a dungeon and just get to the boss, and if that happens, then fine, but it's certainly not to be expected as the norm. Most players are in a dungeon because they want something out of it, whether that's loot or XP or (for newcomers) a chance to see the content, and all of those rewards are diminished by not completing the whole thing. At the very least, ask the rest of your team if they're willing to forego part of their rewards in exchange for a slightly quicker completion time.

    Maybe it has to do with the way tanks can get nearly instant queue times, but please keep in mind that the rest of us can't. DPS classes who have a half-hour or more wait to even get into a dungeon will likely only get one or two runs in in an evening. I was running it for XP, and even on a Duty Roulette run, about 80% or so of the XP comes from killing all the minor mobs along the path to the boss. If we don't kill the mobs in those optional rooms, then I lose out on a major portion of the XP from the only dungeon run I may get that day. Similarly, someone running it for loot isn't going to want to miss any of the treasure chests (and while XP was my primary goal, I wanted loot as well).
    (4)
    Last edited by Niwashi; 02-01-2014 at 04:42 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Kabooa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    4,391
    Character
    Jace Ossura
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Goldsmith Lv 100
    Tanks can't solo it, and DPS can tank those early dungeons.

    Just put your foot down with the others. Clear the room. You don't need a tank before Brayflox, I'd argue.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    SkyHighDN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    96
    Character
    Robin Locksley
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 50
    I understand where your coming from.. BUT if everyone is sync-ed down to the level... the ASSUMPTION is that everyone has done this dungeon before, and most players just wanna get through the content as fast as possible for the tomes/xp bonus on the daily roullette..

    I think if you want to do the full dungeon for the random useless treasure chest, then by all means, speak up, I dont think anyone has a problem going back and doing the extra content for the extra 2 or 3 minutes.

    I am a main class DPS... I usually prefer to skip that material, even though it misses some xp, mainly because I want the scaled bonus xp at the end as fast as possible.

    Now if there is some one NEW, which prompts at the beginning, i would EXPECT to do all the content, regardless of the majority vote.

    But maybe its just me, the assumption is to skip as much as possible unless specified.... Ive done Tam Tara at least 100 times now, and i personally dont care about the random aetherial pink loot
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    Niwashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5,248
    Character
    Y'kayah Tia
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabooa View Post
    Tanks can't solo it, and DPS can tank those early dungeons.

    Just put your foot down with the others. Clear the room.
    That assumes everyone sees what's being skipped. I've done that dungeon lots of times and in fact had gotten the same one on both of the previous two days Roulette, so I remembered pretty well where everything was and I knew when we passed by that extra room.

    On a lot of runs, though, especially (though not exclusively) if it's a dungeon I haven't done for a while, I'm just racing through to keep up with the group and don't even see where we are on the map. I may not always know that we missed an area until we're so far past it that it's impractical to backtrack to, or perhaps would never know. Players in that situation would still be gypped out of what they should have been able to earn there, but won't even have an opportunity to insist on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by SkyHighDN View Post
    if everyone is sync-ed down to the level... the ASSUMPTION is that everyone has done this dungeon before
    I'd done it before myself. Lots of times. That doesn't mean I didn't want any of the rewards from it. You can never assume that everyone running a dungeon wants to give up the rewards of that dungeon.


    Quote Originally Posted by SkyHighDN View Post
    I am a main class DPS... I usually prefer to skip that material, even though it misses some xp, mainly because I want the scaled bonus xp at the end as fast as possible.
    And as I said, if everyone wants to skip the optionals, that's fine. My objection wasn't to skipping the optional content, it was to one player trying to make that decision for everyone else without asking them if that's what they wanted to do. If you want to skip the optional side-rooms, say so at the outset and discuss it with the rest of the group. Come up with a consensus on what the whole group wants to do. Otherwise, if you're not going to discuss it, then do the entire thing.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player
    razzgrizz3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    220
    Character
    Depravicus Mana
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 19
    this goes both ways. it can be as well automaticaly asumed that people want to skip optional rooms with trash.
    thus you need to speak up.
    (3)

  6. #6
    Player
    Nezerius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,713
    Character
    Rintha Elenah
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    it's certainly not to be expected as the norm.
    Maybe if they actually made those chests worth going for. You'll just get a potion most of the time.
    Later instances have it a bit better, by having a higher chance at pink items, a chance at a crafting item for housing, or even green item (the ring in Brayflox comes to mind)

    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    DPS classes who have a half-hour or more wait to even get into a dungeon.
    Duty Roulette aside, perhaps you should ask in your FC/LS? Maybe make a tank/healer friend to run instance with? Not to sound harsh, but this is an MMO after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niwashi View Post
    I was running it for XP
    Taking your Tam-Tara example, you'd get about 59 mob kills (including bosses) if you skip every optional room. If you don't skip those rooms, you'll get about 65-66 kills. I don't see those 6-7 kills being a major portion of the exp.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Zfz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    2,371
    Character
    Celenir Istarkh
    World
    Atomos
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    I say we do away with this daily bonus design. Calculate everything and use a look-up table to award synced exp upon each target kill such that it end up the same as now, but only if you kill everything. The current design of "the more you skip the better it is for you" simply doesn't make sense. It may be more work for the devs but it creates a long-term sustainable friendly environment in low level roulettes.
    (1)
    “There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.”
    ― Ernest Hemingway

  8. #8
    Player
    PetiteMalFleur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,252
    Character
    Viva Diva
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 60
    Just politely ask the tank to clear everything for mapping or exp at start of dungeon. I've never had one refuse. It sounds like yours complied with no issue as well. I'm leveling a tank and will sometimes skip rooms unless someone just asks to please kill them or accidently pulls. I've also had people ask why we are killing stuff when I don't skip rooms. We'll then discuss how we should run and rest of the dungeon goes fine. Why would it be the tank's job to initiate this conversation?
    (1)
    Last edited by PetiteMalFleur; 02-02-2014 at 12:25 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    IndigoHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    276
    Character
    Yslera Ravshana
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    When I tank DR, sometimes I skip and sometimes I don't. Usually I ask but sometimes I don't. If anyone is new or says they want to do all the content, I do it. When I initially decide to skip or not, I'm not being inconsiderate, just making a judgment call so that the team moves forward instead of standing around doing nothing.

    Part of being a tank is making leadership decisions to move the group forward. If you want to make those calls, then be the tank. Otherwise speak up. Being surprised that the tank isn't reading minds is kind of crazy. Resenting the tank for making decisions instead of waiting for a committee to form is also kind of crazy.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player
    VargasVermillion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    851
    Character
    Val Vermillion
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 80
    If it's Toto-Rak then i skip bonus rooms, don't like it and want to leave asap. Most people are fine with it.
    (0)

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