Why mark targets?

[Langureion]

So this thread is about bad tank player or marking? O_o;

[MrDiezel]

Why is it important to mark targets... from a lvl 50. Yikes

Put simply, it gives your good and bad dps a definitive target. If you lose aggro as a tank and arent marking your targets, blame will be put on you. If your mark your targets and lose aggro from another monster that isnt supposed to be focused to a DPS, then they take blame. It kinda helps you avoid blame tbh.

It really doesnt take much effort on your part to mark (Macro if you have to). Marking also helps BLM/WHM know which targets they should sleep, as well as tell the party kill priority. For example, in Haukke you have the Maidservant. Some dps may not know that they take priority over every single monster in that dungeon, so def mark that.

Also, many players (such as myself) have Macros that, when triggered, apply certain actions to marked targets. If it makes things easier for the team, why not do it?

[Daenerys_Sedai]

Another reason to mark: mobs have healing spells. The longer one particular mob is left alive, the better its change of getting healed thereby prolonging your engagement time.

You somewhat alluded to this in your original post, but AoE DPS is not effective at 3 or less. You're better off single targeting. All the more reason to mark.

Also, monster priority. Rare to think about but in SRs, marking the correct tonberry helps.

Just thoughts. When I DPS, I certainly appreciate it when a tank marks. I don't think less of a tank that doesn't mark nor consider that person to be a "bad tank", but if I had to list the qualities of an ideal tank, then marking would certainly be a trait.


for more, please see this ongoing discussion in the general boards: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ndatory-Please.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Am I missing something here? Going through Roulette, I've encountered many DPS who become very frustrated when I don't mark targets. This is especially annoying when they don't use AoE when we pull 3 or more targets, and focus down one at a time (subsequently risking pulling enmity).

You've got it backwards. If a Tank focuses on 1 target and dps focuses on that target while not severely overgearing the tank (dps has Zenith, tank has 55 darklight) dps will rarely pull enmity off a tank. AoE Ramapage are more likely to pull something off the tank and onto the dps doing the rampage.

Marking, even a single mark over your current target, helps keep the group focused and will increase survivability due to the decrease in damage taken as individual targets fall.

This is especially true when we are level synced down to a dungeon that locks out the 3rd weaponskill in the combo (bringing the single-target rotation from average 210 DPS to about 170 DPS).

The Fast Blade -> Savage Blade and Heavy Swing -> Skull Sunder combos may have an average DPS of 170 but also they have an average enmity generation per second in the realm of 270. In comparison the Lancer's Heavy Thrust -> True Thrust -> Vorpal Thrust -> Impulse Drive has an enmity generation of around 100.05 per second. The Lancer needs to do close to 3 times more damage to pull off the tank.

[YuriRamona]

It really doesnt take much effort on your part to mark (Macro if you have to). Marking also helps BLM/WHM know which targets they should sleep, as well as tell the party kill priority. For example, in Haukke you have the Maidservant. Some dps may not know that they take priority over every single monster in that dungeon, so def mark that.

Sleeping targets is pretty much the worst thing possible for damage, and is to be avoided. Party compositions are not made to always include a WHM or BLM with sleep, and the dungeons simply aren't tuned to require it.

Marking, even a single mark over your current target, helps keep the group focused and will increase survivability due to the decrease in damage taken as individual targets fall.

It may be worse outgoing dps, but it is better for incoming dps as dead targets can't deal damage.

Again, in my first post, I outlined that the exception is if the healer or tank are undergeared or inexperienced. If that's the case, any concern about maximizing damage goes out the window and we are in survival mode. Marking targets and CC are essential, in that instance.

You've got it backwards. If a Tank focuses on 1 target and dps focuses on that target while not severely overgearing the tank (dps has Zenith, tank has 55 darklight) dps will rarely pull enmity off a tank. AoE Ramapage are more likely to pull something off the tank and onto the dps doing the rampage.

Losing enmity is a major concern because there will often times be one DPS who knows what they are doing (spreading damage, using AoE, upkeeping DoTs) and another who insists on focusing on one enemy and using single-target abilities. I don't think I should be at fault for trying to ask DPS to maximize their DPS and spread their attacks, just because everyone is habituated to focusing down one enemy at a time and marking targets. The tank shouldn't be the one bending over backwards to adapt to DPS that don't want to fit with the tank's style.

[Ultimatecalibur]

This is the standard response I get when I tell people I will not mark targets and they should not focus down one target at a time and that they should try to use their DoTs. I've even explained how the maximizing of DoTs is superior damage and makes for a faster, easier run. Unless my fundamental understanding of numbers is wrong, marking and focusing one at a time is worse DPS.

It may be worse outgoing dps, but it is better for incoming dps as dead targets can't deal damage.

[ERob3000]

I mark for PUG groups and only when I want a target burned down quickly (ex: Tons in WP).

[bokchoykn]

Marking targets doesn't mean "only damage this target". You can mark a target while still having the DPS dot the unmarked or the (2) and (3) targets or AoE the pack down.

The purpose of marking targets in 4-man dungeons is so that your two DPS don't completely split their non-DoT damage. It simply communicates to the team which mob you intend on building the most aggro on, so they can DPS accordingly. It doesn't say they can't use DoTs or AoE on the other targets.

[YuriRamona]

You somewhat alluded to this in your original post, but AoE DPS is not effective at 3 or less. You're better off single targeting. All the more reason to mark.

for more, please see this ongoing discussion in the general boards: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ndatory-Please.

I'm referring entirely to damage over time abilities. Yes, AoE is typically only efficient against 3 or more targets.

Let's use BRD and DRG as case studies.

BRD standard rotation:
Heavy (150) + bonus critical chance for Straight Shot = about 180 potency
Venomous Bite = 100 initial potency + (35 x 6 [ticks over 18 seconds]) = 305 potency
Windbite = 60 initial potency + (45 x 6 [ticks over 18 seconds]) = 330 potency

DRG options:
True (150) + Vorpal (200) + Full (330) = average 226 potency
Phlebotomize: 170 initial + (25 x 6 [ticks over 18 seconds]) = 330 potency

Damage over time is simply better damage per global cooldown.

I'm posting outside of the other thread because that concerns itself only in situations where enmity is all over the place, players are inexperienced, or there is a risk of dying. None of this applies in my circumstance, and if it does, then yes, we should definitely mark.

[Fiosha_Maureiba]

Marking gives a clearer order of who should be getting attacked after the first target dies. I'll often use the tank's target as my target, but if they're switching targets to hold hate on each and now the DPS is split, it usually means both enemies live longer and this in turn requires more healing or a chance that an enemy will do another major ability before it dies.

E.g. bees in Sunken Temple, bastards get to do a Final Sting if DPS is split and it becomes stun resistant due to diminishing returns.
Or just killing the little Twintania dragons so they don't spew liquid hell all over the place as long.
In a lot of content, the marking is "silent", e.g. kill order for Garuda sisters, Turn 4 waves, but some form of coordination for single target tends to help the outcome more than being free for all and each party needing to dynamically adapt to another player.