i90 AF and the 'Primal' weapons.

[Kirol]

Aureliami is right and has called me out on this massive oversight! Most of these weapons are either from Eureka or the Crystal tower, one or two being from Job mastery in the 3ds remake.
So that definitely links them to the Crystal tower. (Very good! We're getting somewhere now. ;p )
And that puts the weapons as being displaced from the tower a long time before we were around, so there's that.
Now that leaves the AF2 question still to be answered. ;o

[Empressia]

Well if we doin it Skyrim style, Rowena might be a god/goddess in disguise or a herald to a certain god in which the AF+1 set is either a reforged Gerolt style set from the future or an original pristine set in which the AF set is the cheap copycat of it (I mean like Shattotoo original blm suit compared to the mass manufactured BLM AF set?). So that means she's Thaliak or Althyk in disguise or their herald doin whatever agenda their master aims for!

[Gwaeron]

I'm not sure about the mechanics behind conjury and thaumaturgy or how the weapon mechanics work in order to augment the magicks.
But the following strikes me as strange:
* The Crystal Tower is the tomb of the first Allagan emperor
* Allag was founded in the Third Umbral Era.
* Allag flourished during the Third Astral Era.
* Allag fell as the Fourth Umbral Era started.
* The discovery of magick brings the Fifth Astral Era.

Why does the crystal tower contain weapons that augments magick? Did any other civilisation after the fall of Allag guard the tower (and left weapons behind) for some reason? We know Nael van Darnus is of Allagan descent and that his house are the keepers of Allagan secrets, so nothing is impossible. One thing seems pretty certain though, if the weapons are from the crystal tower, at least some of them were placed there long after the tower was built, and most likely after the fall of the civilisation that built it. But it does not seem unlikely that a construction like the crystal tower would be worshipped in some way even after the fall of the Allagan empire.

Does anyone remember if they mentioned when the defense mechanisms were put in place in the cutscenes leading up to Crystal Tower? They could have been found outside as well (which seems likely, since no-one, including Rowena, should have been able to salvage the tower before the defenses were broken). Maybe they are the weapons of others who have tried to enter, but failed...

Edit: This also makes me wonder... Where (and when) the heck do the Allagan Grimoire of Healing/Casting, Allagan Scepter and Allagan Cane come from? Especially the grimoires, how did the Allag know about the geometrical and mathematical figures required for arcane magicks that weren't invented until the Fifth Astral Era?

[saber_alter]

Edit: This also makes me wonder... Where (and when) the heck do the Allagan Grimoire of Healing/Casting, Allagan Scepter and Allagan Cane come from? Especially the grimoires, how did the Allag know about the geometrical and mathematical figures required for arcane magicks that weren't invented until the Fifth Astral Era?

maybe they were magitek focus points that the allagan used to make a psuedo form of conjury or thurmatagy. or they were exactly what the game calls them...canes, scepters, and books. we just know how to use them as weapons.

[Kirol]

The possibility remains that magick was known to Allag, they seem to have an incredible knowledge of everything else. Compare how advanced the Binding Coil and crystal tower are compared to the rest of the world.
Notice also that the Garleans seem to mimic a lot of this technology for their own purpose - considering that Van Darnus was of Allagan descent it's not too far-fetched to think that he had an understanding of how these things worked.
But then, where did the Allag get their power from in such vast quantities so quickly?
Well, look at it this way; Nael van Darnus was granted his power from his Deity. Given that he is a descendant of Allag, it's entirely possible that they also worshiped the same entity.
Bahamut, the elder primal.
It's pretty reasonable to assume such, and that Bahamut could have given the Allag the technologies that defined their culture. It was only after their destruction and imprisonment of Bahamut that magic became lost.

[Anonymoose]

The possibility remains that magick was known to Allag <snip>

I'd bet my bottom gil that if Allag knew of summoners and primals, they knew of magick; especially with all that MAGIck TEKnologie. Possibly it's been independently discovered in different ways over time, like how Arcanists perform a summoning ritual with math, or perhaps the Fifth Astral Era discoveries were a certain type of magick. I'm not freshly versed on any of those topics right now ><

Notice also that the Garleans seem to mimic a lot of this technology for their own purpose

That's really the only way to explain all the Iron Giants and Death Claws in both Crystal Tower and Nero's contributions to the Garlean army. I'm wondering if they found a stash int he same place they dug up Ultima Weapon.

But then, where did the Allag get their power from in such vast quantities so quickly?

No idea! They had a thousand years; Earth's came pretty far in the last thousand years. Then again, Ishgard had about 1500 and they didn't get all that far, did they.

Well, look at it this way; Nael van Darnus was granted his power from his Deity. Given that he is a descendant of Allag, it's entirely possible that they also worshiped the same entity. Bahamut, the elder primal.

You lose me on this one. The Allag enslaved dragons and the dragons seem pretty pissed right now. Until I see a better connection to make, I'd go as far as to say they hold a grudge, and that slavery thing might even be what started the Dragon Wars that Ishgard is still fighting. Once upon a time, via the Theologian quest's clues in 1.0, I'd have said that perhaps the Dravanian Horde summoned Bahamut to save them from the Allag, who in turn enslaved Bahamut as the ultimate weapon... but there are some pretty big holes in that theory and I'm waiting for an expansion pack before I make any claims that are more than 80% likely to be dead wrong, lol.

[Kirol]

The Allag enslaved dragons and the dragons seem pretty pissed right now.

And there are so many people having trouble with the little dragons, just wait until we bout the big bad wolf himself!
However, I think we're detracting from the point at hand a little bit here... No doubt all questions will be answered in time, but ... I would like this one cleared up for continuity's sake. :3

[Norondor]

I'm not sure about the mechanics behind conjury and thaumaturgy or how the weapon mechanics work in order to augment the magicks.
But the following strikes me as strange:
* The Crystal Tower is the tomb of the first Allagan emperor
* Allag was founded in the Third Umbral Era.
* Allag flourished during the Third Astral Era.
* Allag fell as the Fourth Umbral Era started.
* The discovery of magick brings the Fifth Astral Era.

Why does the crystal tower contain weapons that augments magick?

Allag certainly knew of magick, and their civilization was apparently the dominant cultural influence in the world at the time of the third astral era -- their fall would have probably been a new dark age, and the fifth astral era probably marked an independent re-discovery of magick. At least that's how i'd interpret it!

Did any other civilisation after the fall of Allag guard the tower (and left weapons behind) for some reason?

If i'm not mistaken, don't the gigas claim rightful dominion over the ruins at st. coinach's find? I think Acheron looks a bit giant-ish...

No idea! They had a thousand years; Earth's came pretty far in the last thousand years. Then again, Ishgard had about 1500 and they didn't get all that far, did they.

Hey, the western world hasn't yet had to tussle with an infinite army of mind controlling dragon mutants, so credit where credit is due! (and it is all due mighty halone, may she see our enemies driven before us)

[Pentacus]

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

attacking shopkeepers in video games tends to be a bad idea...

[Anonymoose]

If i'm not mistaken, don't the gigas claim rightful dominion over the ruins at st. coinach's find? I think Acheron looks a bit giant-ish...

I had that same thought, at first. "Could it be? I mean look at him!" But could it really be? This game has gone to extreme lengths to show the illusion of organic growth and development in language, culture, history, and religion. Even the word Dalamud is just the word Bahamut distorted by "a few thousand years of imperfect historical record." If the Gigas were truly the distorted descendants of the Allag, that would mean that, somewhere along the evolutionary line, they lost a finger and two toes, which seems like a crazy stretch of biological tendency. The five fingered hand is so far back in the evolutionary chain that it's part of the human arm, the dolphin flipper, and the bat wing - yet somehow it might have been lost in the 3,000 years between Allagan and Gigant? I'd be disappointed in someone at HQ. A firm thrashing would be in order, kupo. They'd have to apologize in front of absolutely everybody.

Now... oh, wait.

<puts darksteelfoil hat on>

Now, that means that the gigantism shown by Acheron was probably part of his modifications. After all, the stairs in the Labyrinth of Ancients are for "normal" people. Surely Acheron wasn't the only monstrously modified man they left on auto-pilot in their fall. By the time the wandering races appeared in the by-then empty Eorzea, there could have been a few of them wandering around... Twelve of them, maybe. I bet the sight of THAT would have inspired some stories. Giant heroes that helped get the realm in order before disappearing... and over time, legends of heroes become legends of gods.

But is that in line with Square Enix's inspiration of Ancient Greece? Twelve "Olympic" figures who seal primordial forces away to rule in their stead? And after the Titans were sealed away, the Olympians took hecatonchiers as slaves. Perhaps the Gigants weren't descendend from the Allag but from those that served them. Perhaps the Allag created them to be a slave race using early methods of the same modifications Acheron underwent, and they've been using the same slave traditions to separate Gigas/Giant/Hecatonchier ever since. The Gigas claim to be descendant of the Allag, but, if this nonsense I'm rambling is true, who's going to call them out on that bluff? I don't see any Allag around to challenge the claim.

<takes darksteelfoil hat off>

What was I talking about? Oh, right. A firm thrashing, kupo.