Succor - Impossible to get full potential?

[Sanguisio]

TBH, this is where WHMs shine, WHMs absolutely kill SCHs at group healing and it should be kept like that, we cant be turret healers and AOE healers at the same time it would just be ridiculously unfair and unbalanced.

[chumsy]

TBH, this is where WHMs shine, WHMs absolutely kill SCHs at group healing and it should be kept like that, we cant be turret healers and AOE healers at the same time it would just be ridiculously unfair and unbalanced.

The problem with this is, this essentially makes 2 sch parties impossible for most fights. The fact that 2 Whm can clear any content in the game, makes sch far less valued. Tanks dont have this problem, you can have 2 pld or 2 war and clear any content in the game. Its just the 2 sch combo that doesnt work. An easy fix for this would be to make sch bubbles unique to the sch, ie stacking. That way if two sch cast succor the effects arent wasted. I dont even mind if adlo doesnt stack.

[sharazisspecial]

The problem with this is, this essentially makes 2 sch parties impossible for most fights. The fact that 2 Whm can clear any content in the game, makes sch far less valued. Tanks dont have this problem, you can have 2 pld or 2 war and clear any content in the game. Its just the 2 sch combo that doesnt work. An easy fix for this would be to make sch bubbles unique to the sch, ie stacking. That way if two sch cast succor the effects arent wasted. I dont even mind if adlo doesnt stack.

Lies double sch can heal anything. L2P. You have all the necessary tools. Double whm weakness is tank healing, Double sch weakness is Aoe healing.

Letting shields stack would cause double sch to Trivialize fights. Especially if you consider that if you completely migitate an attack like death sentence. You receive no debuff.

[Sanguisio]

lol Double SCH will always outshine Double WHM, but imo most of the time WHM/SCH is usually better.

When I decide to SCH/SCH its usually with a friend and we split party between us, when we know AOE dmg is coming we just aldo everyone, which is fine imo.
Communicate!!, if its a sequence of AOE damage e.g timults, decide who succors 1st, then when the other SCH is half way in cast start yours, that way you roughly interlock and most of the damage is dealt with, im sorry, dont use laziness as a reason to ask for a buff.

[AldoVonAlexandros]

well maybe not on every fight, but it is possible, works for me on titan, virus, succor, SS, mitigates a good amount of damage then whm just need to do a medica II

[AldoVonAlexandros]

Lies double sch can heal anything. L2P. You have all the necessary tools. Double whm weakness is tank healing, Double sch weakness is Aoe healing.

Letting shields stack would cause double sch to Trivialize fights. Especially if you consider that if you completely migitate an attack like death sentence. You receive no debuff.

meeh, i have heal with sch/sch, a whm has a quicker aoe heal, but 2 sch can mitigate a lot to heal less if there is communication between (sorry my grammar) also, while bombs and adds in titan ex, my tank is alive cause i can lustrate while moving and sometimes the whm tank dies cause its to bussy running

[Squa]

lol Double SCH will always outshine Double WHM, but imo most of the time WHM/SCH is usually better.


When I decide to SCH/SCH its usually with a friend and we split party between us, when we know AOE dmg is coming we just aldo everyone, which is fine imo.
Communicate!!, if its a sequence of AOE damage e.g timults, decide who succors 1st, then when the other SCH is half way in cast start yours, that way you roughly interlock and most of the damage is dealt with, im sorry, dont use laziness as a reason to ask for a buff.

I don't really understand how people think WMH is that bad of a tank healer?
Physick(300p) = Cure I(300p) equal
Adloquiem(300p(300s)) < Cure II (650p) This goes a bit deeper, but Aldo is essentially a 300 actual heal, each with pros and cons

• Adloquiem 300p + 300s (600p/s total)
  Crit heals provide double shield, so a crit will be 300p + 600s = 900 total value
  Shielding in general has the effect of increasing eHP if used on a full target
• Cure II 650p
  Can proc free casts with Cure I
  High actual single target healing (Adlo is half shield so isn't good to cast consecutively, provides less HP restoration)

so comparing these 2, since the p/s effect on Adlo is situational, has strengths and weakness, it is best to say WHM/SCH is best together.

SCH Eos/Selene is nice additional heal, 300p / 3 seconds cast, except pet AI is silly, also macros will slow your personal heals due to queueing issues
WHM Regen is strong single target heal 150p, but is "Set it and forget it" type heal over 21 seconds

SCH Lustrate is also nice, 25% hp restoration that makes up for their Aldoquiem only healing 300p on low HP targets.

I would say SCH may be a little better in tank healing, but WMH are quite good at tank healing with Cure II and regen.

However, make the comparison in AOE healing, and WMH blows away SCH completely, SCH cannot aoe heal effectively (yes, even with rouse/whispering dawn on a 1 min cooldown). Yes, you can 2 heal SCH/SCH Titan Extreme mode, but u can also solo WHM that fight as well.


EDIT: I want to get into the p/t healing combo a little more here. potency/shield combo, is what SCH relies on mostly, like Adloquim/Sucor
p/s (potency/shield) healing abilities compared to p(potency) only
Target is at full health: This will be more effective than a p, since it can increase the target eHP. A p heal would be 100% wasted here, but a p/s heal is 50% effective for shield (assuming the shield gets used at some point). If target is full health, and doesn't take more damage before shield wears off, p/t is equal to p in healing 100% wasted
Target is not full health: In the case that a target is not full health already, then at best the p/s combo can be equal to the pure p ability. Assuming the target will take damage in the future that will consume the shield 100%, then it will be equal to a p heal. However, in situations where the shield will not be consumed (fall off), or if another shield will be overwritten before it can be used (in the case of 2 SCH or consecutive casts), then the p/s combo is significantly weaker than the p only combo.

So in summary, having pure healing is almost always more effective or equal to having shield/heal, except in the case where a target is at full hp, at which point a shield can increase the eHP of the target. So SCH is just there to avoid 1 shot mechanics from going full hp to death quickly which is what the shield does.

Overall I think the WMH is still superior and has a distinct lead over SCH, SCH does add certain things such as shield, and damage reductions , however the SCH mechanics max at 1 per group as their benefit does not overwrite with multiple.

[Marcusow86]

snip

WHM is never a bad tank healer, just that RNG in play and SCH's shield/lustrate beats RNG.

Therefore, you can safely say that SCH will always be better in healing MT as they can eliminate many unnecessary bad luck death due to RNG. WHM on the other hand is really good in group heal.

[Richiealvian]

Whm just has too few OH SHIT heals when healing a tank. Otherwise, they both are quite equal.

[Squa]

Whm just has too few OH SHIT heals when healing a tank. Otherwise, they both are quite equal.

I agree, 5 min? CD on Benediction seems excessive. Also, presence of mind 5 min cd ?