The problem with allowing Turn 2 Rage strat

[Shirai]

You know that you can easily change jobs in the "waiting areas" between the turns, right?

[Vodomir]

You know that you can easily change jobs in the "waiting areas" between the turns, right?

No, didn't know that, because honestly, we play the entire raid with the same setup we enter Turn 1 with, never had to resort to class changes so far. And while changing classes in the waaiting area may be possible, this will not work if the said class is on another toon (not everyone has all of their classes levelled on the same toon).

[3motion]

Tanks love T2 Enrage, solo loots

[Allyra]

No, didn't know that, because honestly, we play the entire raid with the same setup we enter Turn 1 with, never had to resort to class changes so far. And while changing classes in the waaiting area may be possible, this will not work if the said class is on another toon (not everyone has all of their classes levelled on the same toon).

Are you seriously advocating engrage strat is bad because some people may have multiple toons?

How is this in any way shape or form relevant to the topic?


If people who are doing it have no issue and it doesn't affect you in anyway, why does it matter?

[Ricon]

I'm a little curious why people keep saying using enrage hurts users skill in turn 4. Those turns are in no way, shape, form, or fashion alike. Turn 2 requires killing a varying number of nodes to lock abilities/ give buffs to a boss which you then kill. Turn 4 is nothing more than a timed dps check where you kill waves of enemies until you win or lose more like a hard mode demon wall. Kinda. Sorta. You get the idea.

I feel like blocking rot and giving ADS haste is the real hard mode, dude is a pain like that.

Try to just live and let live for a change since SE has said this isn't an exploit (gonna blow your mind in a second). I would like to note here that no encounter other than the two ADS fights have a timer counting down to its(wait for it, I'm gonna blow your mind here) CHANGE IN MODE. This is not a rage in the same sense as twintania or turn 4 and antabooga/the primals are not rages either (those are dps checks). Ultima is not a rage, that's a clock. Instant death after a set time has expired is a clock, difficulty increases after a timer has expired is a rage. They are more often than not a wipe but can still be won at times as proven with twintania. ADS simply changes modes to something that is harder/easier for some set ups.

(This is a disclaimer stating that I have done turn 2 both ways and I support no side in this argument other than SE) /threadover /mindblown /playthegamethewaythatmakesyouhappyanddoesntsteponotherstoes.

[Vodomir]

Are you seriously advocating engrage strat is bad because some people may have multiple toons?

How is this in any way shape or form relevant to the topic?


If people who are doing it have no issue and it doesn't affect you in anyway, why does it matter?

Did you even care to read any of my previous posts in this thread? If you did, you will probably notice, that I don't have any issues with people using this so called "strat" neither do I demand any change to encounter to disallow said "strat".

I'm simply not using this "strat" myself and also recommend others to not use it for a various number of reasons/disadvantages:

- it leaves a bad taste in your mouth, because winning with this "strat" just doesn't feel right, as you didn't even handle with just one of the fight's core mechanis in the intended way; all you do is merely bypass/circumvent all of the mechanics - what an accomplishment!
- players who never did this the intended way will learn absolutely nothing about the actual mechanics; they don't even learn how to deal with game mechanics in a proper way; all you show them is how to look for ways to bypass game mechanics (so while not officially an exploit, you are at least entering a grey zone of "non intended gameplay")
- if you ever want to become a member of any serious raid fc, than it certainly won't help your reputation, if all you did in Turn 2 was Enrage Mode
- enrage mode is basically a huge waste of time, as clearing it the intended way is clearly faster (not only because of the hassle you might have with switching classes/toons, but because the fight is won clearly before the clicks run out, whereas in enrage mode you first start to DPS seriously only after the clicks have run out

I don't see any advantage of using the enrage mode other than to either make up for your own incompetence to even deal with relatively easy to handle game mechanics or to carry loads of noob player to auto victory in this turn. Either way using enrage mode only shows that you are not even on par with an average raid group, as this turn isn't even remotely hard to begin with.

[Lunavi]

SE I sincerely request you adjust Turn 2 to force players to actually work through the mechanics of this fight. I don't know if during development this strategy was ever used, devised or tested. I also don't care that this strategy is in no way an exploit, just an alternate way of doing this fight. The strategy of pushing ADS into his enrage to "easily" kill him while ignoring all of his major mechanics is a bad thing for the community. Here are several reasons why:
-removes the opportunity for groups to learn and progress through this particular fight
-for those not yet geared enough to complete turn 1, many are clearing this once a week for easy loot.
-by not adjusting this dungeon it sends a message to the community that it's ok to use whatever means necessary to gather loot, the fight isn't what's important.
-perhaps the larges blow against the community is that this fight uses a modified group composition of either 2 heals 5dps 1 tank or 3 healers 4dps 1 tanks. For every 7 people that clear this fight that's only 1 tank. Many static or free company groups will have the resources to do this with the same 8 people however for pick up groups this is not the case. It becomes an issue when those looking to complete Turn 4 are met with a shortage of tank, and an abundance of healers. It's not uncommon to see 2-4 groups shouting for 1-2 tanks to start a turn 4.
The current setup for T2 is hurting the community and creating a job imbalance, for this reason I sincerely hope the developers will look into adjusting the enrage mechanic of this fight.

It does one good thing. It makes people able to pug 1-2 members for the fight if needed without having ridiculously high iLvl requirements to make sure the other person has coil experience to ensure they know how to pass Rot (seriously, that mechanic is stupid when you pug, one bad and the whole group fall apart). It also sends another nice messenge to the community, be creative. Idk how many whine threads I have read about this specific way of beating t2, but it is actually testing in another way. It turns the fight into a heal and DPS rotation check which is by far more relevant for t4 than passing around Rot.

[Lunavi]

You seem to be forgetting that a majority of the FFXIV community thought that sleeping Conflags on Twintania was an intended mechanic.

Honestly, the average skill level of players on FFXIV is extremely low compared to other MMOs (particularly World of Warcraft). I don't know why this is, but as a result, they're going to lobby around any sort of exploit that makes encounters manageable for their lack of skills/reaction speed.

XD Lol, now I have read it all... I can tell you that the skilllevel on FFXIV players are NOT lower than WoW players. Not in any way. As far as I remember the instances in that game is balanced so that a party of 1/3rd should be able to beat it nowadays because most people are just N.U.B.s. If by any reason WoW players not do exploids like this it is solely because they lack the imagination/inteligence needed to even think outside the box.

[Vodomir]

It does one good thing. It makes people able to pug 1-2 members for the fight if needed without having ridiculously high iLvl requirements to make sure the other person has coil experience to ensure they know how to pass Rot (seriously, that mechanic is stupid when you pug, one bad and the whole group fall apart). It also sends another nice messenge to the community, be creative. Idk how many whine threads I have read about this specific way of beating t2, but it is actually testing in another way. It turns the fight into a heal and DPS rotation check which is by far more relevant for t4 than passing around Rot.

What's so "good" abou carrying potential noobs through this turn, when this isn't even hard to begin with? Unless you consider dodging of telegraphed (void zones) attacks and passing rot around hard by any means. Why would anyone need to set ridiculous high iLvl requirements? At first this fight doesn't need very high average iLvls at all, and additionally iLvl tells nothing about a player's quality and/or experience. Anyone can have a high average iLvl close to 90 by now, just by getting myth gear and grabbing one piece of CT gear each week.

And what you feel to be a stupid mechanic, is actually a test of coordination that makes this fight much more of a team effort (isn't that what raiding or grouping in general should be about?).

[RickXRolled]

Sigh, all this talk between elitists and casuals about enrage method being legit or not.
It' s blatantly obvious the enrage method was a design flaw. It was intended to pretty much wipe a group doing it the normal way if they lacked the dps to kill it intime. They simply overlooked the fact you could wait for the enrage first before fighting. Instead of fixing it and making all the casuals cry out en masse because they can never down turn 2 again, they simply said: "Whatever, let them do what they want for now. We learned our lesson from this and will make sure that in future encounters this method can' t be used.".

So, while casuals might feel like the developers said:" Go ahead guys! We support your method!" they actually reluctantly allow it and see it as a learning experience for future encounters.