Holmgang and Foresight still.... Meh ? How I would do it

[Nalou]

The way I use Foresight: I made a crappy defensive combo with useless skills:
#1: Foresight - Bloodbath - Featherfoot - Awareness
#2: Foresight - Bloodbath - Featherfoot - Mantra

This way, I always have one of these useless buffs on (because, let's face it, none of these will save my life).
I consider it reduces on average my damage taken by 3%... something like that xD

Panic buttons are: Vengeance, Thrill of Batte and Convalescence

[MrDiezel]

The way I use Foresight: I made a crappy defensive combo with useless skills:
#1: Foresight - Bloodbath - Featherfoot - Awareness
#2: Foresight - Bloodbath - Featherfoot - Mantra

This way, I always have one of these useless buffs on (because, let's face it, none of these will save my life).
I consider it reduces on average my damage taken by 3%... something like that xD

Panic buttons are: Vengeance, Thrill of Batte and Convalescence

You dont use Second Wind as a panic? It is based off attack power (and can crit) so used under the right circumstances, its pretty good! Second to Thrill of Battle, though.

[Shurrikhan]

Eh? The animation is pulling the target close to you, which means only binding the target and not yourself though. Hence, you can run around while holding the chain.

Or was it pulling the target and bind yourself with the target? That's ridiculous! LOL!

It's the name that says that you'll both be staked there, not the current animation, which came well after the original effect.
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Personally, Holmgang as a PvE move has saved me during tank-swap encounters far more than Hallowed Ground has been capable of, but is of course relatively useless if you're going to continue to be wailed on at the same intensity for more than its 6 seconds. That said, I can at least use it for a double Wicked Wheel or whatnot if I'm not topped off (which, given my gear, would no doubt kill me), about every occurrence.

Although it won't save you from Ultima's 5-stacks (the stacks will continue to explode until reset, and therefore only really reset on your death), you can still take some 80k damage of constant explosions before you go down, hopefully giving the newly rezzed tank enough time to top off before provoking as you die. You can also sprint through two bombs and Holmgang during a jump to live through a third... Hallowed Ground will absorb none of that damage, as in its disclaimer ("most" sources of damage).

That said, as a PvP move, I'd agree that holding the enemy within leash range would be preferable, with the ability to stake him or her to the floor as you like, where you like, with an unbreakable bind.

Foresight seems alright to me as is. It's not a great CD, but why expect all CDs to be of equal power, even given CD difference? If you want to make the ability itself more interesting, new traits seem a better match for the job. That or have there be different layers or characteristics to seemingly identical mitigation (beyond the mere fact that Foresight only affects physical and Rampart affects all damage, opposite of Storm's Path--Halon).

Honestly though, are we even willing to have something more major than 'minor CD - deploy at start of boss's pummeling phase', 'major CD - deploy 13 seconds before Diffractive Laser or just before it so that it lasts into the next series of major hits'? We *could* have an entire aspect to Warrior going between cool-minded slaughterer, Foresight being the pinnacle thereof, and a berserk avenger, headed by 'Vengeance'. That would make an essentially contradictory class in some ways, much like having to weigh heal bonuses against our own large self-heal before the de-coupling of Wrath stacks and healing. But it would at least be skill-intensive, interesting... and probably damn brutal.

[Abigs]

holmgang is good for pvp but for pve its really really gimped.. please stop comparing holmgang to hallowed ground because its not even up for debate.. hallowed ground is leaps and bounds better than holmgang (lasts twice as long too).. the mere fact that you cannot move or get out of redzones make holmgang very situational.. sure you live thru wicked wheels but you're sure to hit a slipstream until the effect wears off

foresight is meh, i guess a small buff would make it more attractive or just make it similar to rampart like how skull sunder is basically the same with savage blade

[Riyos]

And if I use Holmgang, 8/10 times it only delays the inevitable.

Holmgang+Benediction can save your day.

[OmegaSinX]

Holmgang+Benediction can save your day.

True, and it has. But in most cases, because of the short duration; Holmgang is more likely to give a healer a heart attack. Ive seen more panics than Benediction/Lustrates during Holmgang.

What sucks about Holmgang, even tho you cant die for 6secs, your still forced to eat all damage for those 6secs. And that Hurts more than it helps sometimes, espcially if you have to eat Painful AoE/Cone Attacks during those 6sec, which can be alot of AoE if your doing things like WP Speed Runs. Thats why I said I rather Kite in most cases. If im low on HP, Holmgang is my last resort. Thrill of Battle/Convalescence/Kiting is Much Safer For me at least. I only Prefer Holmgang over kiting only in fights where Kiting is not a option (boss fights).

[OmegaSinX]

The problem with Holmgang is twofold: it penalizes you for using it (self bind) and it has an insanely short duration (6 seconds on a 3 minute CD). I realize that some of those issues are for PvP purposes, but, honestly, an ability shouldn't be so crippled by PvP concerns that it becomes basically useless in PvE. That's what we have PvP exclusive abilities for. Most of it boils down to Holmgang attempting to do too many things at once.

what the heck... Me and Kitru actually agree on something. The sky is falling lol.

Your Foresight changes are more than a bit over the top. While I agree that it needs a buff, you should remember that Foresight is a level 2 ability *and* the WAR CD suite is about low magnitude and high uptime. 10 seconds of awesome every 3 minutes doesn't really fit with either of those.

I was just throwing ideas out there, but yes it might be a lil over the top when combined with WAR's 2.1 arsenal. But regardless, it Foresight needs a buff. 10%DR seems reasonably.

Which brings another topic to mind.

One thing I noticed since I've started leveling a SCH is that Foresight/FeatherFoot is WAR only means of mitigation till lvl 35 when they get Inner Beast, Followed by Storm path at 38 and Finally Vengeance at 46. Which is sad since both of those are really weak and thats they have for so long. So what you have are WARs who still get hit like Trucks until they reach their 40s.

Pre-50 healing on WAR is still an issue. I now see what all the healers were talking about. There really no room for error when healing WAR unless the healer or the WAR is over geared.

[Paikis]

One thing I noticed since I've started leveling a SCH is that Foresight/FeatherFoot is WAR only means of mitigation till lvl 35 when they get Inner Beast, Followed by Storm path at 38 and Finally Vengeance at 46. Which is sad since both of those are really weak and thats they have for so long. So what you have are WARs who still get hit like Trucks until they reach their 40s.

Pre-50 healing on WAR is still an issue. I now see what all the healers were talking about. There really no room for error when healing WAR unless the healer or the WAR is over geared.

Pre-30 you can cross class anything. I remember I went and got a whole bunch of classes to 8-ish while I was leveling my Paladin (my first class to level).

Flash and Convalescence from Gladiator to 10
Second Wind and Featherfoot from level 8 Pugilist
Feint and Keen Flurry from lancer level 6

All of these will help you with tanking pre-30, and then at 30, you get Defiance which is an effective 20% damage reduction. Either way though, tanking pre-30 is more about holding agro than it is about not dieing. If you've done any of the low level dungeons recently, you'd see that they don't really need a particularly tanky-tank.

[OmegaSinX]

If you've done any of the low level dungeons recently, you'd see that they don't really need a particularly tanky-tank.

Thats the thing, All i have been doing is Dungeons since i started leveling this healer. every time when I party with a low level WAR it seems like Healing Spam-o-roma. Their are some that hold thier own but most time time its no stop physicks.

[Marxam]

I find it stupid that tempered will prevents knock backs yet holmgang locks you in and still makes you susceptible to knock backs. If they increased holmgang to 10 secs it might be a different story, though it might be op in PvP. Foresight is just the poor man's rampart. Personally I think it should also increase parry by 20%. It's called "Foresight" which is defined as "the act of power or foreseeing".

Power = Defense buff
Foreseeing = Parry buff