Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW

[JMadFour]

basically people wanted XIV to be little more than a graphical update for XI.

at least that is what it seems like sometimes.

[Gramul]

basically people wanted XIV to be little more than a graphical update for XI.

at least that is what it seems like sometimes.

No no.
People want something that expanded on XI. Something that kept the spirit of freeform adventure, where the story and quests work as a strong undercurrent to the environment itself. A place with a sense of danger and mystery. Something that worked working to streamline tedium of XI, while introducing new kinds of content. Something that isn't the same mechanics we've seen for the past decade reworked into a different skin, plus a few minor (but appreciated) novelties.

At least, that's what I would like.

[Duelle]

Something that isn't the same mechanics we've seen for the past decade reworked into a different skin, plus a few minor (but appreciated) novelties.

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

[Whiz]

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

Exactly, you just reminded me why I quit 11 and never looked back. Even when 1.0 turned out to be a strait disaster i still refused to go bck to 11.

[Vandark]

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

As much as I hate the spam fest mechanics and repetitive red dot mayhem in ARR this is really a debate about introducing some relative content in relation to the Final Fantasy MMO series and not another overhaul of the games mechanics.

Re introducing some end game content similar to XI and some of the past enjoyed outside world content that FFXIV 1.23 had could easily be done differently to fit ARR's style of combat and mechanics.

Just to add my opinion on XI's mechanics, I have to say I preferred them and I loved Utsusemi tanking, it was all about timing and observation.

The things I would have liked to see improved on with XI's mechanics were perhaps a larger range of skills and abilities, individual limit breaks and better animations but that's about it really, I have always enjoyed the play style in XI alot more than ARR.

For me tho nothing beats 1.0's original system of being able to create your own class, that was ingenious. When they cut the amount of abilities we could make use of in 1.23's update I was disappointed but I didn't expect it to be cut down to virtually nothing in ARR... that is just disgraceful.

[Sapphic]

Snip

Wouldn't your time be better spent trying to change FFXI, which is closer to what you want than ARR, back into what you prefer then wastng your time dreaming that they will change FFXIV into something else?

[Vandark]

Wouldn't your time be better spent trying to change FFXI?

Wouldn't your time be better spent not repeating whats already been explained?

For Example.

Not really, my problem is no longer with XI my beef is with FFXIV changeing from a game I love into ARR, a game I can no longer relate to.

[Gramul]

The mechanics are the last thing I would want to take from FFXI. Broken defense values, Utsusemi tanking, gear swapping, terrible party dynamics, refresh-whoring, gear as an off-on switch instead of being there to enhance what already exists (Aegis, Ochain and Almace). It's the stuff of nightmares and bad design.

Which is why I said:

Something that worked working to streamline tedium of XI, while introducing new kinds of content.

I don't want the game to be the exact same. I just want concepts and elements of the world design and how lore/quests where presented in, what I would argue, a more natural and open way.

[Duelle]

I just want concepts and elements of the world design

You mean that zones were needlessly barren, making it seem that the only places that had an actual semblance of civilization were the three starter cities, Jeuno and the outlands towns of Mhaura and Selbina? I actually hated that sort of design because it took away what little credibility the three cities had.

how lore/quests where presented in, what I would argue, a more natural and open way.

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

[Vandark]

Considering quests in FFXI were less rewarding than anything I've ever seen in an MMO outside of Lineage II, that's not something to really aspire for. XI's sidequests were filler to the main story (as opposed to here, where we are given quests more to help establish setting). We could ask for something totally unrelated (like the Obsidian Arrow quesline), but we already have that in the form of Hildibrand. We could use some more filler quests, I guess.

FFXIV's quests in a nut shell

Quest type 1 - Run from A to B talk to B run from B to C talk to C run back to A -> Done
Quest type 2 - Kill these monsters that are easy pray at best run back to A -> Done
Quest type 3 - Run from A to B do an emote Run back to A -> Done
Quest type 4 - Do this dungeon

Leve type 1 -> Run to Leve monsters kill them run back -> Done
Leve type 2 -> Escort by waving at this npc - Done

Main Story Quests, basically the same as the first quest list despite cut scenes and lots of dialog.

My opinion on the quest system in MMO's.
All WoW clones share this same lame pattern of quests, it's no less grindy than partying really except it's tedious, it's slower paced than partying or grinding mobs and much less enjoyable because 90% of the content is done by yourself.

--

At least in FFXI the quests involved large scale objectives that required a large team, zones with a sense of danger and some really interactive boss fights.
FFXI's quests made you go on epic adventures and was always for a purpose like unlocking access to new areas or advancing/progressing threw the actual game itself, FFXIV is child's play.
It just depends what your after, are you after an adventure or are you after a face book game?

I felt like the idea of Quests fit better into XI, that XI had it right, because XI eliminated the pointless side of questing which is to level through quests and actually made the quest system a form of unlocking or gaining access to areas, transport or a means of progression within the world. The quests in XI although challenging at times always left a feeling of reward, satisfaction and a memory of the experience.

XI was an experience, XIV is just another wow clone.

What is a WoW clone, a game thats like WoW right?

Not exactly, a WoW clone from what I can see consists of taking small parts from WoW and trying to make it new.

What is bad about this?
Everything!
-They always take the same parts from WoW that people see in every game now and it's seriously getting old.
-They try to revolve there entire game around these small parts that they have taken from WoW creating a very basic world that feels and plays like child play with very little to offer players.
"Theme park MMO"

VS the old FFXI -> Real MMO experience.